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dr prog View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2011 at 18:54
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Old fart syndrome LOL



Naaaaaaaahhh, you´re way cool Baldie!!!!
 
I'm not too old. I'm in my 30s Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2011 at 18:57
I liked Goblin in the 70's and even though they had that sort of ELP influence it didn't overshadow their compositions. The only album I disliked was the one with the vocals. Some of their instrumentals were creative and you didn't consider it being a soundtrack. It had that definition of early 70's prog yet held it's own ...like on Roller. When I was listening to John Cage and George Crumb I might put on Goblin during the evening hours. I might choose them over Eloy who I also liked and now dislike. All except for Ocean. At first I couldn't adjust to European vocals. I already had a problem with the basics like Paul McCartney singing a Little Richard song or John Mayall singing the blues and sounding like Kermit the Frog. As mentioned earlier in this thread by Snow Dog regarding Camel....I know that I had a real problem digesting their music.I thought Camel and Kayak were a bit too "Top 40" for prog. Kayak had a song called "Merlin" and some of the obscure sounding tracks from their second album were good. Camel had "Lunar Sea" and a few others.
 
I lost interest in Jethro Tull. during the 80's when they started sounding like Dire Straits. I continued to collect Art Zoyd and Univers Zero who I can always return to for adventurous music. I had spent thousands on prog cd's and became jaded. Some people feel that with the question..."Which are their best albums?" , it depends on a preference and it is not so when you consider personal changes within the band and the musical decline instead of different musical direction. If it's a situation like Barrymore Barlow replacing Clive Bunker then it is exceptable. But other incidents such as Rick Wakeman leaving Yes, Mathew Fisher leaving Procol Harum were not good ideas. It can leave you sour. It's not even the same band and nor is it justified because you knew they could have continued writing more great material. It's been the biggest let down in prog for me over the years. It's like throwing something precious away because you want that drive in a certain prog band and it is gone because a key member bailed out. The band sounds horrible now. All the music that moved you has changed into something tasteless.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2011 at 22:13
Lose interest in Prog? Never! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2011 at 22:42
Originally posted by ginodi ginodi wrote:

Lose interest in Prog? Never! 

Thank god.  Do we really need to talk some sense into these people??? Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2011 at 23:33
Originally posted by progprogprog progprogprog wrote:

 
IMO for not having a boring debate, sometimes it's good to have some generalizations, it's actually may lead to more dynamic discussion.Wink  
What I want to hopefully point out, is not limiting ourselves just in those period of time, it's actually having more creativity in the whole music, like what they did back in the golden years of prog scene.
If there was a similar spurt in the recent products, like 70's, then we could find some comparison in these two eras of music.

You gotta categorize things in order to judge them.The OP was talking about the quality of recent prog.



What? You have to categorize, fine, the "recent" prog in order to judge it? How much Prog was there in recent time? The answer at any given time is a lot. What makes you think that in the golden years they were more original, more creative than the musicians of today? Were people making music back in the day have bigger brains? There's no golden years. We remember the classic bands because they were regarded as excellent by many, we disregard and forgot about the rest. The fact that there's a lot of crap today does not mean that there wasn't plenty of crap back then. 

Nobody's limiting themselves to any period of time. The 70s had great music, and so will 2012 (happy new year by the way).

There be dragons
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 04:26
No. IMO, 2011 has been exceptional. The best in years. The diversity and the quality coupled with the quantity of releases from 2011 has been amazing. The last four months I'm spending at least 75% of my listening time plugged into the new releases and yet still finding gems from the '70's.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 04:28
As Slarti says, 2011 is a banquet...you've got to find SOMETHING to like this year.  There's the Fripp project, Wilson's solo album, prog metal as usual, so much to choose from.  But I guess you can't expect each new album you hear to be a masterpiece that surpassed any you've heard before, that expectation starts to develop unconsciously as you listen to more music and can make one feel fatigued and bored of a chosen genre of music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 04:34
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

As Slarti says, 2011 is a banquet...you've got to find SOMETHING to like this year.  There's the Fripp project, Wilson's solo album, prog metal as usual, so much to choose from.  But I guess you can't expect each new album you hear to be a masterpiece that surpassed any you've heard before, that expectation starts to develop unconsciously as you listen to more music and can make one feel fatigued and bored of a chosen genre of music.
 
I gave up expectations on artists/albums and along with my being content with my sound systems and sources that I'm actually relaxed before listening which in turns makes the whole listening experience more enjoyable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 04:37
Originally posted by cannon cannon wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

As Slarti says, 2011 is a banquet...you've got to find SOMETHING to like this year.  There's the Fripp project, Wilson's solo album, prog metal as usual, so much to choose from.  But I guess you can't expect each new album you hear to be a masterpiece that surpassed any you've heard before, that expectation starts to develop unconsciously as you listen to more music and can make one feel fatigued and bored of a chosen genre of music.
 
I gave up expectations on artists/albums and along with my being content with my sound systems and sources that I'm actually relaxed before listening which in turns makes the whole listening experience more enjoyable.


Ditto...have been down that road and only recently unlearnt a tendency to expect. Not that I ever tailored my expectations in terms of stylistic choices because I am all ears for something different all the time but I have/had a tendency to expect too much from music.   That can get counterproductive at times because there's nothing wrong with enjoying a decent piece of music.  Demanding the best all the time can sometimes lead to snap judgments because one's own old favourites were chosen when one was less opinionated and had lower expectations from music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 04:57
 
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by progprogprog progprogprog wrote:

 
IMO for not having a boring debate, sometimes it's good to have some generalizations, it's actually may lead to more dynamic discussion.Wink  
What I want to hopefully point out, is not limiting ourselves just in those period of time, it's actually having more creativity in the whole music, like what they did back in the golden years of prog scene.
If there was a similar spurt in the recent products, like 70's, then we could find some comparison in these two eras of music.

You gotta categorize things in order to judge them.The OP was talking about the quality of recent prog.



What? You have to categorize, fine, the "recent" prog in order to judge it? How much Prog was there in recent time? The answer at any given time is a lot. What makes you think that in the golden years they were more original, more creative than the musicians of today? Were people making music back in the day have bigger brains? There's no golden years. We remember the classic bands because they were regarded as excellent by many, we disregard and forgot about the rest. The fact that there's a lot of crap today does not mean that there wasn't plenty of crap back then. 

Nobody's limiting themselves to any period of time. The 70s had great music, and so will 2012 (happy new year by the way).


Happy new year to you.
You know what?call me unreasonable, but I don't like the way the music goes these days (majority), that's it.
Don't know what's wrong with me, It's just how it feels. and certainly I'm not  the only one who think so.
Anywho, I really don't care, the only thing I can do would be not buying anymore Symphonic prog, Eclectic prog and of course Crossover prog from 79-*.I mean it would be a better deal for me to choose from 70s. 
Also I don't care if I seem to be stupid as f*ck, the money you spend on things is matter for me, not whole bunch of free conversations Wink


Oops! I'm now listening to Gosta Berlings Saga, their 2009 Album Detta Har Hänt is quite enjoyable (It's more like King Crimson kinda thing sometimes).I guess I've been a little too radical about recent bands Shocked.But not that there's lots of gems from them out there.


Edited by progprogprog - January 01 2012 at 06:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 06:14
^^^ In my opinion, which frippism will vehemently disagree with, there's not a whole lot that matches a Larks Tongue in Aspic or Octopus.  The point is, there was never a whole lot that lived up to those standards, not even in the 70s.  I would not be sure if I could rate an OK Computer over a Meddle or a Flight of the Cosmic Hippo over Birds of Fire but there are many other highly acclaimed 70s albums over which I'd rate both.  So, can you really expect each new album you hear from these days to match or surpass the very best of decades like the 60s or the 70s? The debate over whether there are such albums at all is moot because it is not even necessary for the sake of enjoyment.  Every classical work cannot match the Ninth Symphony or Four Seasons nor is every jazz album as good as Time Out or Kind of Blue.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 07:16
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

^^^ In my opinion, which frippism will vehemently disagree with, there's not a whole lot that matches a Larks Tongue in Aspic or Octopus.  The point is, there was never a whole lot that lived up to those standards, not even in the 70s.  I would not be sure if I could rate an OK Computer over a Meddle or a Flight of the Cosmic Hippo over Birds of Fire but there are many other highly acclaimed 70s albums over which I'd rate both.  So, can you really expect each new album you hear from these days to match or surpass the very best of decades like the 60s or the 70s? The debate over whether there are such albums at all is moot because it is not even necessary for the sake of enjoyment.  Every classical work cannot match the Ninth Symphony or Four Seasons nor is every jazz album as good as Time Out or Kind of Blue.  
Good point of view, the expectations are pretty high.we really can't compare every new albums to those masterpieces. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 07:23
I tried listening to classic prog again recently and I just didn't like it. In fact I was hearing it the way that those reviewers in the 70's must have been. Silly, kind of childish and like a never ending musical adaption of D&D. I'm sure if I give it a few years it won't sound like total sh*t to me again.

I'm having much more fun exploring Jazz, alt rock and avant scenes now. No more endless marathons of 70's albums. I'm listening to modern stuff, new stuff and plenty of stuff i'd always avoided. I don't regret getting into prog or my endless Genesis marathons, but i'm glad that I won't be doing that for a long time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 07:39
Originally posted by progprogprog progprogprog wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

^^^ In my opinion, which frippism will vehemently disagree with, there's not a whole lot that matches a Larks Tongue in Aspic or Octopus.  The point is, there was never a whole lot that lived up to those standards, not even in the 70s.  I would not be sure if I could rate an OK Computer over a Meddle or a Flight of the Cosmic Hippo over Birds of Fire but there are many other highly acclaimed 70s albums over which I'd rate both.  So, can you really expect each new album you hear from these days to match or surpass the very best of decades like the 60s or the 70s? The debate over whether there are such albums at all is moot because it is not even necessary for the sake of enjoyment.  Every classical work cannot match the Ninth Symphony or Four Seasons nor is every jazz album as good as Time Out or Kind of Blue.  
Good point of view, the expectations are pretty high.we really can't compare every new albums to those masterpieces. 
Nor can you compare any album from the 70s with those you consider to be a masterpiece - not every album released in the 70s was a masterpiece, not every album was even that good even when you compare them to what you would consider to be mediocre from today's releases - as frippism said - there was plenty of crap back then. Only time will tell how many modern albums will be regarded as masterpieces, because I can assure you that neither Larks' nor Octopus were hailed as masterpeices when they were released and the reverence that "we" now hold Crimson and Giant is newfound.
 
Prog isn't a competitive sport.
 
No album should be compared to any other, it's an excercise in futility that's doomed to dissapoint at every possible chance it gets.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 07:43
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

not every album was even that good even when you compare them to what you would consider to be mediocre from today's releases - as frippism said - there was plenty of crap back then. Only time will tell how many modern albums will be regarded as masterpieces, because I can assure you that neither Larks' nor Octopus were hailed as masterpeices when they were released and the reverence that "we" now hold Crimson and Giant is newfound.
 


Agree heavily with this.  New material is just too adjacent chronologically to meaningfully answer the question of which are or aren't masterpieces. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 09:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
Prog isn't a competitive sport.


Words from the wise.  Polls should have an inherent disclaimer that they are there for amusement purposes only and should not be taken seriously. LOL
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 10:42
Originally posted by topographicbroadways topographicbroadways wrote:

I tried listening to classic prog again recently and I just didn't like it. In fact I was hearing it the way that those reviewers in the 70's must have been. Silly, kind of childish and like a never ending musical adaption of D&D. I'm sure if I give it a few years it won't sound like total sh*t to me again.

I'm having much more fun exploring Jazz, alt rock and avant scenes now. No more endless marathons of 70's albums. I'm listening to modern stuff, new stuff and plenty of stuff i'd always avoided. I don't regret getting into prog or my endless Genesis marathons, but i'm glad that I won't be doing that for a long time.
Many of those reviewers in the 70's had their favorite pets and so I for one cannot agree with any of them. In the 70's I could hardly take the YES fans. Long-haired drug induced ....eyes rolling in their head....cosmic riff-raff, soft spoken or jabberbox spiritual put ons. They were in the HIGH NUMBERS and they mostly developed a hate for King Crimson and ELP. Especially on the east coast and headquarters was Philadelphia where YES were promoted weekly and along with special presentations of the band through radio shows...influenced a lot of people in my age group. They had attitudes about a style of music that was structured in the opposite direction from Yes such as King Crimson. I mean.....when you meet a person over a beer and the 2 of you discuss prog ...it should be about individualism, respect for each other, and teaching each other about music out of a personal interest and not about climbing on board to a Yes ship that sends King Crimson fans adrift.

The Jon Anderson image had become a mixture of drugs and spiritual vibe to bring a person to a level when seeing Yes live. I lost interest in the God Jon Anderson around the time of Relayer although I continued to collect every Yes album. In High School almost every teenage pancake make-up faced girl loved Robert Plant. It was a fact. He was like a long-haired sex symbol of the 70's for teenage girls. It has a lot to do with why they sold more than Deep Purple during Purple's outstanding 3 year profit run with Warner Brothers. By the time Jon Anderson came to visit they were acting out a more extreme cosmic personality at concerts. The whole thing was a turn off for me .....manLOL    I loved C.T.T.E. and the Yes Album but growing up with this was a phony situation. The only reason why these critics where raving over Yes and using the chopping block for ELP had to do with not making waves in the 70's when Yes had this hippie wanna-be following. If you are a journalist and you desire to go against the grain...you must be willing to suffer the wrath of Yes fans. All these surroundings developed my hate for prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 11:10
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Nor can you compare any album from the 70s with those you consider to be a masterpiece 
I was referring to his/her examples.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 11:39
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

 
So you are complaining of some "wild noise"
The needle is scraping away at the vinyl every time you listen to it even if you are perfectly careful and have a supreme turntable and needle. 

Also you should know that when you are walking you are falling at the same time...
 
That is why I archive all my albums from my Pink Triangle Anniversary/SME V/Lyra turntable onto a very high quality Pioneer cassette system (not the high noise, no treble cheapo version, but a £1000 superdeck which is almost indistinguishable from the original) and I use cassettes for normal listening to preserve my vinyl.
 
It still outperforms my CD player with ease.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2012 at 12:48
^ You need a better CD player
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