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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Did anyone mention "Yours is No Disgrace" by Yes yet? 

I love to play bass along to this song! 

  • The Vietnam War was an influence on this song. Governments fight wars, not men and women - therefore yours is no disgrace. The message is that war has no winners and no real meaning - as Jon Anderson has explained, the young people going off to fight the war had no say in the matter, and the war itself was certainly not their fault.

    "Death defying, mutilated armies scatter the earth, Crawling out of dirty holes, their morals, their morals disappear" - killing is brutal and cruel, but the disgrace falls not on the soldiers, but on those who orchestrated the war.

Yes, it has been mentioned before, but not with such a good explanation. Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

Spanish symphonic prog band Triana's notable song with political undertones is "Rumour" from 1977. The lyrics of the song reflect the turbulent political climate in Spain during that time, marked by the transition from the Francoist dictatorship (1936–1975) to democracy.

Very nice to see a representative of a new country and get some history. I can easily imagine that some more of the Spanish Prog was concerning the ended political regime and hopes for the new government.


Edited by David_D - July 15 2024 at 05:40
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Quote Spanish symphonic prog band Triana's notable song with political undertones is "Rumour" from 1977. The lyrics of the song reflect the turbulent political climate in Spain during that time, marked by the transition from the Francoist dictatorship (1936–1975) to democracy.
Oh. So that's what it's about? I'm kinda let down because I've always perceived the lyrics as having more of a universal legend/fairy tale/parable message.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

Spanish symphonic prog band Triana's notable song with political undertones is "Rumour" from 1977. The lyrics of the song reflect the turbulent political climate in Spain during that time, marked by the transition from the Francoist dictatorship (1936–1975) to democracy.

Very nice to see a representative of a new country and get some history. I can easily imagine that some more of the Spanish Prog was concerning the ended political regime.
To be honest, Triana are the only Paella Prog band I've ever heard of. Embarrassed
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Roy Harper - I Hate The White Man, The Dark Cloud Of Islam, The Death Of God. 

Edited by SteveG - July 15 2024 at 05:40
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Spanish symphonic prog band Triana's notable song with political undertones is "Rumour" from 1977. The lyrics of the song reflect the turbulent political climate in Spain during that time, marked by the transition from the Francoist dictatorship (1936–1975) to democracy.
Oh. So that's what it's about? I'm kinda let down because I've always perceived the lyrics as having more of a universal legend/fairy tale/parable message.
Triana's "Rumor" was released as the first single off their 1977 album, "Hijos Del Agobio." Spanish people in 1977 were waiting since the fall of dictatorship in 1975 for the Constitution to be formally ratified, which led to some irritation in addition to feelings of hope and liberation; hence, "Rumor," which had poignant lyrics about hope following the fall of the Francoist dictatorship, was warmly received by young people in Spain as soon as it was played on the radio. The song became a big hit in Spain because it captured the spirit of defiance against the Francoist tyranny prevalent at that time. Its message resonated with audiences seeking change and played a significant role in shaping the cultural landscape during Spain's transition to democracy.

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

To be honest, Triana are the only Paella Prog band I've ever heard of. Embarrassed
Just as English prog bands incorporate elements of English folk music into their compositions, it is only fitting that the Spanish prog band Triana infuse their music with the rich tapestry of Andalusian folklore. Although they changed their style in the 1980s, Triana were undoubtedly a symphonic prog-rock band in the 1970s. After all, Triana is listed as a symphonic prog band in Progarchives.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

To be honest, Triana are the only Paella Prog band I've ever heard of. Embarrassed

Knowing your tastes, I can imagine that you could be quite fond of not so little of the Spanish Prog, even probably not quite as much as of the Italian.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

To be honest, Triana are the only Paella Prog band I've ever heard of. Embarrassed

Knowing your tastes, I can imagine that you could be quite fond of not so little of the Spanish Prog, even probably not quite as much as of the Italian.

Yes, I've no doubt Spanish Prog would be almost as tasty to me as Italian Prog, if only I had the time to listen to it all. So much music, so little time, but it's a nice "problem" to have. Smile
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I'm kinda let down because I've always perceived the lyrics as having more of a universal legend/fairy tale/parable message.

Could sound like you were not familiar with the lyrics of many of the Polish Rock albums from the '80s, and maybe even early '90s. Wink



Edited by David_D - July 15 2024 at 08:19
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

To be honest, Triana are the only Paella Prog band I've ever heard of. Embarrassed

Knowing your tastes, I can imagine that you could be quite fond of not so little of the Spanish Prog, even probably not quite as much as of the Italian.

Yes, I've no doubt Spanish Prog would be almost as tasty to me as Italian Prog, if only I had the time to listen to it all. So much music, so little time, but it's a nice "problem" to have. Smile

Yeah, Paella Prog and Buridda Prog are equally tasty. But nothing surpassed Jellied-Eels Prog.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Yes, I've no doubt Spanish Prog would be almost as tasty to me as Italian Prog, if only I had the time to listen to it all. So much music, so little time, but it's a nice "problem" to have. Smile

Yes, it's some of the non-political reality, however to define the political. Tongue
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Hi,

Quote Triana's "Rumor" was released as the first single off their 1977 album, "Hijos Del Agobio." Spanish people in 1977 were waiting since the fall of dictatorship in 1975 for the Constitution to be formally ratified, which led to some irritation in addition to feelings of hope and liberation; hence, "Rumor," which had poignant lyrics about hope following the fall of the Francoist dictatorship, was warmly received by young people in Spain as soon as it was played on the radio. The song became a big hit in Spain because it captured the spirit of defiance against the Francoist tyranny prevalent at that time. Its message resonated with audiences seeking change and played a significant role in shaping the cultural landscape during Spain's transition to democracy.
...

It was not, the only thing that showed the freedom for a lot of Spanish folks. Picasso's Guernica was specified to be away from Spain as long as the dictatorship lived, and finally it made it to its Spanish home. Likewise, the film industry in Spain began enjoying some good 20/30 years of excellent stuff, even though it was very clear in some of the films that they had inferior equipment, but the ideas and the stories made it stand out for a lot of variety reasons. I can not speak for literature during this time.

Quote Just as English prog bands incorporate elements of English folk music into their compositions, it is only fitting that the Spanish prog band Triana infuse their music with the rich tapestry of Andalusian folklore. Although they changed their style in the 1980s, Triana were undoubtedly a symphonic prog-rock band in the 1970s. After all, Triana is listed as a symphonic prog band in Progarchives.

Kinda strange to see this mentioned in only a couple of places. The same thing happened in America, for example, where the folk revolution had started in the mid 60's and never really stopped, and it made its way to rock music very quickly, in the late 60's with several really well known stuff. It also happened in Brazil, for example, although I might suggest that in Germany it had a very different birth that might be centered around the arts in general, since so much of it involved theater and film specially. I am not aware, of what we call "folk music" in Germany much, though it may just be that I am not as well studied in that area. But it had its political tone, although many folks in the "krautrock" specials tend to take the whole thing away from most politics and into a creative endeavor instead. I imagine that after the WW2, political parties and a lot of political ideas were forced to be put aside so the country could concentrate on its rebuilding, and not politics. That's what I see ... but, again, I really do not have a total/complete study of the whole krautrock thing, specially as some of those "specials" are being kept apart from the viewership for a large fee ... which I understand, but it also hides the "knowledge" that is sustains from the larger world, and that is sad, harsh, and pathetic in my book. I still have not, and can not afford, to see those 3 specials by that one group, and those folks couldn't care less how much I talk and work on the whole "krautrock" thing and its connection to the arts in many ways. As a rock thing, only, and pushed as such, it is not worthy of attention ... it would be just one faction in music, and not an important artistic development. I don't think that the folks in question see that at all ... 


Edited by moshkito - July 15 2024 at 11:58
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

the whole "krautrock" thing and its connection to the arts in many ways. As a rock thing, only, and pushed as such, it is not worthy of attention ... it would be just one faction in music, and not an important artistic development. I don't think that the folks in question see that at all ... 
In fact, the emphasis on repetitive electronic soundscapes and the minimalist style of German Krautrock have had a significant influence on the history of popular music. David Bowie used a lot of the German bands' aesthetic from the Krautrock genre—btw, 'Krautrock' was originally a derogatory term used by British music journalists—to create the unique synth-driven sound and atmosphere of his very influential album "Low," and a number of British New Wave and early 80s synth-pop bands followed it. However, that's a topic for another thread.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I'm kinda let down because I've always perceived the lyrics as having more of a universal legend/fairy tale/parable message.


Could sound like you were not familiar with the lyrics of many of the Polish Rock albums from the '80s, and maybe even early '90s. Wink



Maybe? Polish rock lyrics in the 70's and 80's were incredibly pompous and overly complex, because the lyricists thought that using long obscure words and phrases would make their lyrics look more like "poetry". But at the end of the day, what they ended up writing was mostly word salad gibberish. Kinda like a mix of Jon Anderson's lyrics and Star Trek technobabble. Julian Matej and Adam Sikorski are the most notorious examples. Man, the lyrics penned by either of those two can get really cringeworthily pseudo-meaningful.
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Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

the whole "krautrock" thing and its connection to the arts in many ways. As a rock thing, only, and pushed as such, it is not worthy of attention ... it would be just one faction in music, and not an important artistic development. I don't think that the folks in question see that at all ... 
In fact, the emphasis on repetitive electronic soundscapes and the minimalist style of German Krautrock have had a significant influence on the history of popular music. David Bowie used a lot of the German bands' aesthetic from the Krautrock genre ...

Hi,

I should have said "as important as an artistic development" ... to make it clearer. That it helped other folks, not from Germany learn something is more of tribute to more than just a lot of rock music. Again, I always ask ... what is the difference between Damo Suzuki and Klaus Kinski? ... and the answer is none ... they improvise, and it is never the same, although Klaus Kinski, in his later years got a busy easier in his hardcore improvisations, many of which you can learn about in Werner Herzog's film about his friend.

I think there was some influence from the electronic side, because both TD and KS went stratospheric in their ability, and left a lot of folks behind. However, there was a lot of electronic music also being done elsewhere, and even America had a rich history of electronic music, however, it was not as long meditative pieces and wonderful theatrical music ... as the American style was less about its classicism (so to speak) and more centered towards the sound effect and how to use it, or place it within a song. And it goes way further than Beaver and Krause.

After AD2, Can and Guru Guru (earlier stuff!) in terms of "krautrock" music, it all became just another song ... still had a lot of far out stuff in it and improvisations, but already it's main element was some form of song, even AD2 after "Vive La Trance" got suxxed into the short song thing, which they ended up forgetting what the band was about and where it came from, which does not show itself until their last great album, which was #Nada Moonshine Number, and album that John Weinzierl told me in an email was a "b*****d", but many years later we find a live show with some of that material and it sounds fine, just like the album did as well. But they were no longer a trip band, and that died with Apocaliptyc Bore and the rest of the album was all just fun, small songs, hopefully for some radio, but I think the cynic nature of some of that material prevented it from being enjoyed more.

David Bowie sis some nice things, but in the end, he is not at all influenced by krautrock, since he already has his own thing going ... and it is on Edgar Froese's book, when DB is on a few bars of music and lyrics ... and Tony V. closed the rehearsal, because "David had not found his voice" ... in the piece he was working on. Krautrock, is much more freeform, and does not work on an idea of how something should be expressed ... krautrock in its infancy was wide open, and the purest design of improvisation that a theater/film group have ever come up with ... and this had been studied really hard in London's West End ... so improvisational material was not exactly exclusive to Germany, or krautrock. It even gave us Shakespeare on a child's playground ... which blew a lot of folks totally apart ... and just a couple of years later it gave us Marat/Sade (written by a German!!!) that was an extremely revolutionary concept and wording! But the effect of "improvisation was now very clear, specially Peter Brook's work, who went on to run an incredible improvisational theater in Paris for over 20/30 years. 

Again, "krautrock" really only makes sense and shows its abilities when mentioned along side a lot of film and theater. Not to mention that Wim Wenders and Werner Herzog, gave us some really early visuals from them, which really helped ... unlike the SF equivalent, for German versions seemed more important and valuable from a meaning/development sensation, whereas the San Francisco style was just get stoned, and whatever music comes it goes, though the better established bands went further than just playing to the light shows ... btw ... name one of the most famous light show guy ... and what band he was a part of ... a true 4 wall theater of lighting in that situation, which was better defined and interpreted with the music so it wasn't just stoned nothing images at the Fillmore!
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Maybe? Polish rock lyrics in the 70's and 80's were incredibly pompous and overly complex, because the lyricists thought that using long obscure words and phrases would make their lyrics look more like "poetry". But at the end of the day, what they ended up writing was mostly word salad gibberish. Kinda like a mix of Jon Anderson's lyrics and Star Trek technobabble. Julian Matej and Adam Sikorski are the most notorious examples. Man, the lyrics penned by either of those two can get really cringeworthily pseudo-meaningful.

It's off-topic, but the lyrics on albums like for instance Lady Pank's debut, Maanam's Nocny Patrol and Brygada Kryzys' Cosmopolis were very straight to the point, beautiful and very touching.
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When Polish singer Czesław Niemen released the song "Dziwny jest ten świat" in 1967, Poland was suffering tyranny, and censorship was prevalent. The song, whose title means "This World Is a Strange Place," however, became an iconic piece in Polish music history due to its powerful lyrics and emotional delivery by Niemen. Not only due to its musical qualities but also for its underlying political message, the song gained immense popularity as it subtly conveyed themes of disillusionment and alienation under the oppressive regime that mirrored Soviet practices at the time.
Also, because of its musical complexity, experimental nature, and innovative instrumentation, "Dziwny jest ten świat" can indeed be considered a progressive rock song despite being released as early as 1967.



English translation

This world is a strange place.
Where there is still
Room for so much evil
And it is strange.
That for so many years
People despise people.
This is a strange world.
The world of human affairs
Sometimes it's embarrassing to admit it.
Someone with bad words
It kills you just like a knife would.
But there are more people of good will.
And I strongly believe that
This world
Will not perish because of them.
No! no! no! no!
The time has come.
The time has come.
To destroy the hatred within you
But there are more people of good will.
And I strongly believe that
This world
Will not perish because of them.
No! no! no! no!
The time has come.
The time has come.
To destroy the hatred within you
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At the time when Wigwam released their brief song "Proleterian," Finland was experiencing changes; it was transitioning from a predominantly agrarian society to an industrialized one, and that period saw a lot of debates about workers' rights. Therefore, the lyrics of "Proletarian" reflect social inequality and class struggle.
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Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

At the time when Wigwam released their brief song "Proleterian," Finland was experiencing changes; it was transitioning from a predominantly agrarian society to an industrialized one, and that period saw a lot of debates about workers' rights. Therefore, the lyrics of "Proletarian" reflect social inequality and class struggle.

Yes, the whole album Being (1974), or at least the most of it, is very political, even it's not easy for me to quite understand the lyrics - so very nice with some interpretation here, and we've got Finland to join the party as well. Tongue


Edited by David_D - July 15 2024 at 14:41
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Originally posted by Antoni Antoni wrote:

When Polish singer Czesław Niemen released the song "Dziwny jest ten świat" in 1967, Poland was suffering tyranny, and censorship was prevalent. The song, whose title means "This World Is a Strange Place," however, became an iconic piece in Polish music history due to its powerful lyrics and emotional delivery by Niemen. Not only due to its musical qualities but also for its underlying political message, the song gained immense popularity as it subtly conveyed themes of disillusionment and alienation under the oppressive regime that mirrored Soviet practices at the time
Also, because of its musical complexity, experimental nature, and innovative instrumentation, "Dziwny jest ten świat" can indeed be considered a progressive rock song despite being released as early as 1967.
I love the lyrics because they're so simple yet fricking timeless. No dated political commentary, no wannabe-intellectual padding. Just straight exposition of human nature. The 1967 version is not related to prog in any way imho. It's just a "blue eyed soul" song. However, there is a 1972 arrangement done with the guys who would later form SBB, featuring alternate English lyrics. That one is pure prog!


Oh, how strange...
...is this world!

Where still it seems
There is so far so much evil
And how strange it is
That seems like all man
Despises man

Oh, strange is this world
Of human affairs
Sometimes I'm ashamed to be in it
Oh, so funny how
A man can kill a man
With a bad word
As with a knife

But most people are of good will,
I, thanks to them, believe
That this world
Shall never never never never die

And now the time has come
The final time
For hatred
For hatred to destroy itself!
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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