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Never Mind the Bollocks.....

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2023 at 07:48
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Yeah, it's a pretty creative one, even I might find it more vulgar than funny. 

And definitely not as funny as Glam Metal. Big smile

what's so funny about glam metal in your opinion? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2023 at 07:31
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! 

I don't think, it was accidental that the punk rebellion came close after the '60s counterculture, even the early '80s had their squatter movement where, I think, Punk was quite popular too. 
But I'm not sure how much true left-wing there was in the Labour government, even I can tell that the Danish Socialdemokratic government got some more left-oriented in the '70s when the true left-wing got stronger after the '60s counterculture.


Edited by David_D - December 14 2023 at 08:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2023 at 10:09
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! 

I don't think, it was accidental that the punk rebellion came close after the '60s counterculture, even the early '80s had their squatter movement where, I think, Punk was quite popular too. 
But I'm not sure how much true left-wing there was in the Labour government, even I can tell that the Danish Socialdemokratic government got some more left-oriented in the '70s when the true left-wing got stronger after the '60s counterculture.

Probably the last left wing government in the UK was under Wilson and Callahan in the 70's. After that it's been right wing/centre politics all the way, and the next (inevitable) Labour government will be centre based under Sir Keir Starmer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2023 at 10:22
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ yes,  having immersed myself in contract law for the last several years, it has come to light that when you sign up for selling your art to one of the major industries (film, music etc) you are basically owned and serve as an actor on the stage for the global elite's agendas. Even though i love all these styles of music, it has also become apparent that such shifts in popular music trends are very much orchestrated for the effect of creating divisions in society and the world at large therefore anybody who falls into this trap is really just serving their masters behind the scenes. Sounds crazy but too many have left the various industries and explained these things in great detail. In the case of glam metal, some of those bands really were bad. There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever. It will take a while but eventually a new more just and freer music industry will evolve into something that serves the artist and fans and not just the profits of the industry. In the meantime, indie music is king!

very interesting  Thumbs Up
But I might not be that optimistic about the future development, and I doubt, it'll go that way unless some strong forces work for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2023 at 12:02

For those interested in the American Punk, I can recommend the very informative and well-written book about pre-Punk, proto-Punk, Punk Rock, Art Punk and Post-Punk in the years 1961-80, From the Velvets to the Voidoids: A Pre-Punk History for a Post-Punk World (1993) by Clinton Heylin. It's very good about the New York scene and bands like Television, The Ramones, Patti Smith, Talking Heads, Pere Ubu and the early Blondie, while it doesn't include the later West Coast bands like Dead Kennedys and Black Flag. 





Edited by David_D - December 15 2023 at 04:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 04:22
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

....There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever. ....

One thing more, I don't quite understand your opinion about Grunge. What is it, you don't find to be good there?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 10:38
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

....There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever. ....

One thing more, I don't quite understand your opinion about Grunge. What is it, you don't find to be good there?



Grunge has never been my favorite style of music simply because for the most part it is nothing more than a splintering off from pop punk. Bands like Alice In Chains and Soundgarden are my favorite since they were a hybrid of metal and alternative rock.

My point was that grunge was a concoction of the music industry and the last major marketing campaign before the whole NAPSTER thing decentralized the music industry. Everything changed around the year 2000 and it no musical style has really been a dominate force ever since. Billboard charts are utterly irrelevant these days and really there is no unifying musical force like there was with grunge.

True grunge started in the mid-80s with bands like Green River, Skin Yard and U-Men. With the success of Alice In Chains in 1990 following the new alt rock direction Janes Addiction carved out, the music industry shifted focus from LA glam bands to Seattle grunge.

It's really not about liking it or not, it's about observing the behind the scene forces which shoved it down the public's throat. Same with gangsta rap (propagated by the CIA to destabilize the black community) and other styles like pop country (think Garth Brooks).

As far as liking it, i've learned to like it more than i used to. I just listened to every Nirvana album a few weeks ago and they were really talented songwriters. I still see the more polished forms of grunge as nothing more than an updated version of pop punk but doesn't mean it didn't appeal to a lot of people at the time which is why it was (is) so popular.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 12:49
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

My point was that grunge was a concoction of the music industry and the last major marketing campaign before the whole NAPSTER thing decentralized the music industry.
..............
True grunge started in the mid-80s with bands like Green River, Skin Yard and U-Men. With the success of Alice In Chains in 1990 following the new alt rock direction Janes Addiction carved out, the music industry shifted focus from LA glam bands to Seattle grunge.

Okay, so you don't find the post-1990 Grunge to be a genuine movement, but that's then not how I see it, even I find it of course to be promoted and partly shaped by the music industry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 17:48
^ didn't say it wasn't a real movement. I'm saying it was a manufactured movement and many took the bait. There were much better expressions of alternative rock occurring in the 90s. Grunge was basically for the hipsters who loved pop but needed it dressed up in angst. It was really just a different face of the glam metal scene but in a filthy lumberjack sorta fashion statement way.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 18:56
Hustle and hype.....noise, man - never mind the music, it's bollocks!  Loved a lot of the different offshoots of "punk" music, but that album and the short shockwave of Pistolmania.....just don't get it.  Lydon's PiL, on the other hand......the only good thing to come of the whole Pistols thing was Johnny Rotten being able to easily get a record deal and cut those groovy early PiL LPs.  
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2023 at 19:27
I just listened to the Sex Pistols one and only album today.

It really was the perfect punk album for 1977.

For my liking it's a perfect  5 star punk masterpiece.

Love the vocals, love the attitude, the F.u.c.k. it all lyrical content.

Classic!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 04:47
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I just listened to the Sex Pistols one and only album today.

It really was the perfect punk album for 1977.

For my liking it's a perfect  5 star punk masterpiece.

Love the vocals, love the attitude, the F.u.c.k. it all lyrical content.

Classic!

Thumbs Up  even I find it nihilistic too.


Edited by David_D - December 16 2023 at 05:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 14:40

It looks to me that the early American, West Coast Punk was more constructive than the British one, even there were also some 
left-wing British punks in the '70s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 14:47
The only punk band I ever liked were Blondie, although by the time I started buying their albums, they were no longer a punk band. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 15:53
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The only punk band I ever liked were Blondie, although by the time I started buying their albums, they were no longer a punk band. Smile

Yeah, it didn't last long and ended before they started releasing albums - and I wouldn't really say, it was Punk even by the early American terms.



Edited by David_D - December 16 2023 at 16:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 15:56
I unironically enjoy American Idiot by Green Day. It's not really punk, but more like alternative rock with punk overtones. But it's very well made and has incredibly catchy hooks scattered all over the album. My fave track is Homecoming. The "medley"-ish way, in which it is structured reminds me of some prog epics. Really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2023 at 21:54
I really enjoy this album.

Holiday in the Sun, Problems and No Feelings are my favorites. 
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 05:48

I was not much for Punk when it came in Britain, but I bought Never Mind somewhere in the first half of the '80s, when it was 
on sale and I had got a bit more into the genre. I've listened to it a lot of times since, even there've been also many years when 
I didn't. Today....yeah, you know.






Edited by David_D - December 19 2023 at 06:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 10:07

About the early American, pre-British Punk, I think it's a good question whether to consider it as a full-blown Punk or only proto-Punk, 
and then Sex Pistols as the first Punk band proper - which makes Never Mind the first full-blown Punk album?







Edited by David_D - December 19 2023 at 10:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 10:26
They were just more in your face and very snarly. I always hated stuff like The Ramones personally. They were sort of old style rock n roll but amped up a bit more. That's fine but not very interesting to me. The Pistols were something else entirely and probably even some influence on metal bands like Motorhead.
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