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TODDLER View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 13:54
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.

Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.

But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.

I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.

It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.

I agree and feel deeply that this damaged made to "the times" is more directly to blame on the industry itself. In the U.S. during the late 70's, Americans loved Prog. The industry took it away and people's attitudes changed about music because they were being sold something else that changed that attitude to respect musicianship. This entire business decision to shorten the length of songs influenced the minds and mentalities of younger generations that began in the 80's and extended through the 90's. People in general began to develop a short attention span for music ...as a result..over time of 3 decades. In the 70's the young audiences to see Prog bands play live varied in music tastes. NOTHING was compartmentalized into any business concept or any worry of a cult following instead of a massive one.. or that the music would fade and finally die. 

Originally "Progressive Rock" appealed to masses and it had the finest respect from audiences for it's musicianship. I can't believe that it was actually represented over a period of 5 to 6 years ..as something to be taken seriously. No doubt, you had to be there..in the 70's.. to appreciate the surroundings of it's social gatherings and the seriousness of the music. Often it is said..."yeah..but..that was then, this is now" and to be honest what difference does it make when people my age are under the impression that there's something missing from the music. So...in point...maybe what you don't hear is something that was erased by the industry by their business motives to change music and the impression that would have on people. An impossible theory to back up with precise evidence...however...the simple idea to change music by replacing what was there in 78' with a new fad in 1980 could have influenced a mass of people to think and breath music differently than you or I. Which is the answer as to why the average person has a short attention span to a piece of music that contains more than 4 chords and 10 notes. On the average I would say that this occurred 40 percent of the time in the 70's. Even people who were afraid of ELP's music desired to investigate it. Everything was extreme and sometimes it felt like music as an ambition in life, was about being progressive.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 15:54
^I'm not so sure Todd, as Roundabout by Yes was generally played on FM radio as a 'single edit', so the 3 minute song actually invaded all areas of radio. It was only late night FM that played unedited tracks from prog albums. Remember Allison Steele, The Night Bird?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 16:36
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.

Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.

But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.

I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.

It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.

God, this was beautifully written. Kudos to you, sir. You captured my thoughts and experiences, having grown up in the '70s myself, eloquently!

Edited by Rednight - November 14 2014 at 16:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 16:48
^And young people don't listen to Korn together? I guess my grand kids must be exceptions. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 17:05
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


^And young people don't listen to Korn together? I guess my grand kids must be exceptions. LOL

Your response is full of corn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 18:03
Yes.  Now go spend all your time listening to pop. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 18:32
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

(...)

It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
I agreed, of course. However, can you imagine the situation that you're in the seventies had the ability to see the future just for a second, just to see the progressive rock section at a great music platform such as Bandcamp, to see your fav band's recent gig in another corner of the World at YouTube, and that possibility that in this forum you chat with fans from around the world, but also with the already well established prog artists who are members of this forum? I guess that should be more than one usually WOW.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 19:12
I'm a young guy who heard some of my dad's vinyl's and was intrigued. My dad was a casual fan though, which given the vast reach of prog those days I assume that's not nearly as rare as now. However, how did I become hooked? The internet. Behold, wikipedia gives you a list of prog bands, you start looking up full albums on youtube that record companies are to lazy to take down, and now I've listened to all the popular bands and far more. Now that about 3 years are up, I'm roughly 10x more well-versed in prog then my dad. Yeah, their were bands back then that slayed, but I can't help but think some of you older folks had to have been lucky b*****ds to have discovered a band like Magma or Comus for instance. For the new generation, the flame just needs to be sparked and world of prog is at our fingertips! I still got to see Yes and The Moody Blues live with my equally geeky friend going nuts with the hippies, so I think time has handed us an even trade.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 22:22
The Big 6 (I insist the Moody Blues also belong) are deep into the twilight of their careers, with some having ridden off into the sunset altogether or tacitly admitting they're a recycling oldies band--KC, idiosyncratic as always, is the exception. Boomer listeners are probably as much to blame as anything else--they want recreated hits from the past, with little tolerance for new material.
The new generation carries the torch, and it's a vast smorgasbord of delightful sustenance which looks forward, in the true sense of what "progressive" really means. Theirs and their progeny, will continually refresh this underappreciated genre.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2014 at 23:47
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

As someone pointed, the environmental and cultural circumstances were completely different. Rock music was the main entertainment and vehicle for cultural expression for the youth of the early 70's. People awaited eagerly for the new albums, went to the shop to buy them, they shared them, listened to them together, discussed them, got stoned together listening to them, studied and discussed the artwork, copied the clothing styles of their musical heroes, hanged posters in their bedrooms, bought the music magazines because they talked about those bands... The bands knew this so they were engaged in a certain form of competition for becoming the most appealing and talked-about, musically and as a cultural and entertainment act.

Those of us who learnt Prog in the 70's can't avoid having our perception of the classic masterpieces linked to those environmental factors, which very probably gives them a deeper dimension in our hearts, and we may feel that although great music is surely made today (possibly even better from a purely technical point of view), some of the magic is gone.

But I am not sure if the young generations who are discovering the 70's classics now, free from their original environmental circumstances, agree that they were so much better than many modern great Prog albums.

I have discovered many truly fantastic modern albums, but the discovery experience is now much colder, I learn about them through the internet, order them online, I'm usually alone when I receive them and listen to them for the first times, and if I like them the only chance to share them and discuss them is with a few close friends who as myself do not have much time anymore for music, or through the net in places like PA with people I don't even know.

It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.



I agree and feel deeply that this damaged made to "the times" is more directly to blame on the industry itself. In the U.S. during the late 70's, Americans loved Prog. The industry took it away and people's attitudes changed about music because they were being sold something else that changed that attitude to respect musicianship. This entire business decision to shorten the length of songs influenced the minds and mentalities of younger generations that began in the 80's and extended through the 90's. People in general began to develop a short attention span for music ...as a result..over time of 3 decades. In the 70's the young audiences to see Prog bands play live varied in music tastes. NOTHING was compartmentalized into any business concept or any worry of a cult following instead of a massive one.. or that the music would fade and finally die. 

Originally "Progressive Rock" appealed to masses and it had the finest respect from audiences for it's musicianship. I can't believe that it was actually represented over a period of 5 to 6 years ..as something to be taken seriously. No doubt, you had to be there..in the 70's.. to appreciate the surroundings of it's social gatherings and the seriousness of the music. Often it is said..."yeah..but..that was then, this is now" and to be honest what difference does it make when people my age are under the impression that there's something missing from the music. So...in point...maybe what you don't hear is something that was erased by the industry by their business motives to change music and the impression that would have on people. An impossible theory to back up with precise evidence...however...the simple idea to change music by replacing what was there in 78' with a new fad in 1980 could have influenced a mass of people to think and breath music differently than you or I. Which is the answer as to why the average person has a short attention span to a piece of music that contains more than 4 chords and 10 notes. On the average I would say that this occurred 40 percent of the time in the 70's. Even people who were afraid of ELP's music desired to investigate it. Everything was extreme and sometimes it felt like music as an ambition in life, was about being progressive.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 00:30
The flame never dies.
The flame eats away.


Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 00:34
Az that fellow said, we will pay the price but we will not count the cost.

Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 01:44
I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 02:42
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.
LOL! How much it's all subjective! For example, for me and my circle, Keith Emerson in the pictures you mentioned ( I know these pics well, German mag BRAVO was full of them)  was awful & so un-proggy (actually it was more like SWEET and others from 70s glam rock scene ).


Edited by Svetonio - November 15 2014 at 02:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 03:53
^His point is when we are just kids we always admire our idols regardless of the photo appeal.
 
 


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 03:54
What HackettFan said is something interesting - btw already discussed in other thread - that I began to think about again. I can only  add that today's general music appeal is running on a crescent trend against complexity, and this is why we have to take the hat off to the ever existing brand new bands that are doing fantastic works or not even fantastic but just cool music, it's our task to take kind of a media roll (hahah) role thanks to the Internet tools - the only way to keep the flame ever lit.
 
 


Edited by Rick Robson - November 15 2014 at 04:21


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 05:08
Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

The Big 6 (I insist the Moody Blues also belong) are deep into the twilight of their careers, with some having ridden off into the sunset altogether or tacitly admitting they're a recycling oldies band--KC, idiosyncratic as always, is the exception. Boomer listeners are probably as much to blame as anything else--they want recreated hits from the past, with little tolerance for new material.
The new generation carries the torch, and it's a vast smorgasbord of delightful sustenance which looks forward, in the true sense of what "progressive" really means. Theirs and their progeny, will continually refresh this underappreciated genre.


Very much thisClap. Though I am a boomer myself (though from the tail end of the generation), I have very little patience with my contemporaries' obsession with anything Seventies - to the detriment of new bands and artists. US prog fans caused the demise of a festival like NEARfest because they wanted the "big names", and when the organizers tried to change tack the ticket sales were so poor that they were forced to cancel the event. Thankfully, now some brave souls have embraced what I call the "small is beautiful" ethos, and are organizing smaller-scale events with an extremely high level of quality, mostly focused on modern progressive rock acts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 05:37
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.
A few of them could now be pictured in wheelchairs, nearly the same  LOL
BTW John Bonham was another one proudly showing his biker image in the Song Remains the Same movie.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 05:39
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

(...)

It's not "the flame" which is gone, it's the times.
I agreed, of course. However, can you imagine the situation that you're in the seventies had the ability to see the future just for a second, just to see the progressive rock section at a great music platform such as Bandcamp, to see your fav band's recent gig in another corner of the World at YouTube, and that possibility that in this forum you chat with fans from around the world, but also with the already well established prog artists who are members of this forum?I guess that should be more than one usually WOW.


Originally posted by Friday13th Friday13th wrote:

I'm a young guy who heard some of my dad's vinyl's and was intrigued. My dad was a casual fan though, which given the vast reach of prog those days I assume that's not nearly as rare as now. However, how did I become hooked? The internet. Behold, wikipedia gives you a list of prog bands, you start looking up full albums on youtube that record companies are to lazy to take down, and now I've listened to all the popular bands and far more. Now that about 3 years are up, I'm roughly 10x more well-versed in prog then my dad. Yeah, their were bands back then that slayed, but I can't help but think some of you older folks had to have been lucky b*****ds to have discovered a band like Magma or Comus for instance. For the new generation, the flame just needs to be sparked and world of prog is at our fingertips! I still got to see Yes and The Moody Blues live with my equally geeky friend going nuts with the hippies, so I think time has handed us an even trade.

I can only agree, perhaps some great aspects of "the old times" have disappeared, but the current times offer so many other great things which were unthinkable back then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 05:41
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

^His point is when we are just kids we always admire our idols regardless of the photo appeal.
 
 
And my point was that this can not be generalized, i.e. in discussions like this, that kind of things back 30 years or more can only be subjective.
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