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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:10
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.


Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 


Yeah, when a White supremacist, chants white lives matter, they mean "only" white lives matter. The point of black lives matter is to mean black lives matter "as well."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:23
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


I guess this is the point that I am trying to make.  Nothing has really changed all that much.  Hillary pointed out this basket of deplorables during the campaign and all that it did was energize Trump and his supporters.  Are we really all that surprised that Trump responded how he did?  People are acting as though "now he has crossed the line and gone too far" but as far as I can tell he is just being consistent. I have no idea how this clown got elected but it worked for him then, and honestly, I wonder if we are delusioning ourselves if we think that anything has changed because of his remarks.  The people that hated him then still hate him now and have been quite vocal about it since day one of his election but sadly this mostly just comes across as sour grapes.

From what I can gather, the people who voted for him then only because they hated Hillary, may regret his behavior and that he is such a buffoon, but they would still rather not have Hillary.  I just don't think that this is the game changer that the Democrats are hoping that it is.

game changer?  I do think it was Scott.. but not for the reasons you are touching on here.  Not the electorate at large.  Trump has his core support. Roughly a third of the population. Where he won, or more to the point.. where Hillary lost.. was in battle for the middle third of the electorate. Those that hated both of them but saw Hillary as the status quo.. and Trump the agent of change. If the polls are to be believed.. Trump's support has cratered among those.. but it wasn't Charlottesville that did it.. it has going on for months. If he doesn't regain them...  he gets crushed 1964 Goldwater style who only had the votes of racists and bigots. They exist here... but nowhere near enough to win elections at a national level.

Where I do think it was a game changer.. was pure and simple.. . was whether he survives politically.  When you have Republicans... Republicans that stood on the sidelines previously regarding his past outrages haha.. finally come out and question his judgment, temperament and the COMPETENCE to be President.. that means yes.. it was a game changer.  Which means unless things change very quickly...  the notion of the Republicans impeaching him if and when Mueller comes out with his findings is much more real today than it was a week ago.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:39
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

The greatest thing about the USA in my opinion is this 1st amendment.  This amendment gives pricks like the KKK and Neo Nazis the right to spout off their nonsense. They are free to exercise their right to freedom of speech, no matter how deplorable and hateful their speech may be.  Now I'm not sure how a hate group can technically "peaceably" assemble, but without the counterprotesters there to take the bait I suspect that the violence that occurred wouldn't have occurred. 

I guess what I am getting at is that as much as I disagree with the message that these groups have, it is their right to provide this message and ironically, preventing them from giving this message would actually go against America's #1 core value.  "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".  Once they cross that line then all bets are off, but as long as they are just spouting hate that is their right to do so.  

true that... but what has trumped the 1st Amendment. Always has.. always will.  Is public safety.. no one is getting thrown in jail for hate speach... one can not shout fire in a crowded movie theater.. you can in the street and not get tossed into jail by the 'politically correct'.....  a simple comparison.. but an accurate one. Denying permits to those that preach hate is not infringing upon their free speech or their first amendment rights it is protecting public safety.  You have the right to free speach... you do not have the right to exerciseit in any and all circumstances.

the thing many seem to forget....  the other side of the coin with one's rights.. is the responsibility that comes with exercising those rights. So vividly shown in 2016 by non bigoted, racist Trump voters hahah. Agenet of change?  Oh yeah he has been that.. .just not what you might have hoped with your eyes closed and your f**king heads in the sand. So you didn't like Hillary.. and you thought a good idea electing a rich misogynist, racist, reality TV star and otherwise failed business leader with no experience, and zero temperament who ran a campaign based upon hate and division to be the champion... or even care.. about the peons he has shown zero regard for.. until stumping for their votes.

with rights.. comes the duty to exercise them responsibly.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 06:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Two more X's and the Dems win the game!


Playing the game of dick wack dope. 5 x's and you ein.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:46
Nah...  See the guy who looks like he stepped right off the top of a wedding cake...

he was the important X.

The whole lot of the others.. including Trump.. buffoons. Dangerous in their own way... but limited to what they could do by their own buffoonery, inexperience.  As the last 7 months have shown... cleaning up after Bush took all Obama could do... cleaning up after Trump.. piece of cake. His damage is more to the social fabric of the nation rather than anything he actually does himself assuming he keeps us out of a Asiatic War.

Pence though is a true domestic danger...  and why again Trump is gone next year if Mueller finds what we suspect he will find.  Trump was not part of the Republican Party.. nor was truly supported by it ...he simply took it over.. and is f**king up their brand name.  Pence though.. he is one of them... and a very dangerous right wing fundie social activist. Something Trump is not. Unless Trump does a complete 180 and things continue as they have.  Trump will be gone if Mueller gives Congress political cover with their own voters to save their own asses for the midterms and attempt to preserve any chance of winning in 2020.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:51
I am sick and tired of our politics at the moment.  The Stephanie Miller Show always cheers me up.  A little at least. http://https://www.stephaniemiller.com/
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:59
good god man.... I can't get enough of it myself.  This is history we are living in. Nothing like it before in 250 years before... hopefully nothing like it in the next 250. This was the VERY reason the founding fathers made the electoral college.. for when the ignorant uninformed masses f**k up royally and elect something that had no business being elected if one voted responcibly.  Just happened well after it exceeded it's practical lifespan. Imagine the books ... all the books to come out of this. We are living it...  others will merely read it.

The grandkids of our kids will be reading about these days... and probably having the same reaction many of us do.... what the f**k was 'Trump voter' thinking that fateful day in November 2016.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 07:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 07:52
^ in fact to add to that sense of history we are living in.

One can easily say that in terms of the President himself and the nation around him.... that only after 7 months Trump has already moved past 43 past Presidents .. only behind Lincoln himself as the most historically important US Presidents. Will Clinton, Bush, Kennedy.. even FDR be studied intensely many many years down the road. No.. not like Lincoln... nor Trump.  Not surprisingly both involve the division of this country. We were at a crossroads as a nation under Lincoln and arrived at it due to his election.. and we are that as well under Trump. That place in history that unlike other Presidents is merely continuing down paths previously established... but are firm places due to them from which the future and where this country goes are quite uncertain.

This is history man... and we are not merely audiences to it. But part of it ourselves.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 07:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 08:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.


Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 
Yes, our race issue is down to laws put on paper. We have done little to alter how people think about race issues. The fact that Trump's Christian supporters failed to object to his "both sides were at fault" stance illustrates that clearly. If the church will not take a stand on race issues, how can it's followers?
 
As to black lives matter, wouldn't it be more correct to state black lives matter, too. (Just asking.)

No, Black lives were introduced as the topic from the very start. It would be more correct to say 'White lives matter too' since that's an attempt to broaden the topic (and derail it).




Edited by HackettFan - August 19 2017 at 08:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 08:36
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'm not quite sure what HackettFan is trying to get at with his post, but I assume it is because I do not have a PhD in linguistics (congrats on that by the way).  The only reason that I typed the word Black in bold was to stress the word that people to tend to have a problem with in that catchphrase. 


Yes, you were adequately describing what their problem with it was by placing 'black' in bold. And I explained that that does not comport with what any and every native speaker understands about the language. They are being disingenuous by forming that interpretation. They are changing its meaning. Let's put it this way. A 'Black lives matter' activist would speak in a fashion as to put the sentence stress on 'matter' (place 'matter' in bold). This is the normal default way to utter sentences in English according to how information is typically packaged. If I say horses have four legs, one is not free to say that I am saying that sheep do not. If I say animals matter, one is not free to say that I am saying that humans do not. If I say that Linguistics is a cool cognitive science, one is not free to say that I am saying that Psychology is not.


Gotcha.  What you say makes sense to me now.  And I agree that there is a falseness to this interpretation.

I read far too many comment sections on CNN and other news websites.  The more real argument that is made is if "black lives matter" so much why do they only show up when there is death by police officer.  In the city of Detroit numerous blacks are murdered each and every day.  Chicago is a war zone.  More blacks die in Chicago then soldiers in the war on ISIS.  Where are the black lives matter folks then?  If black lives matter so much why are they not protesting these murders? 

Personally, I was raised to believe that the police are the good guys, and I still think that this is true.  I have no idea what the true story is behind all of the police officers shooting black people.  Almost every story that I have seen has involved a black man breaking the law and being shot by a police officer who was doing his or her job.  Police brutality?  Excessive force?  Fearing for their own lives?  Unlike the gang bangers who are killing each other without a second thought, I am pretty sure that every one of these police officers who may feel justified in what they have done, would if given a second chance tried to have found a way to have tried to end things differently.  I agree that most of these men did not commit a crime that deserved for them to be executed, but if they hadn't been committing the crime that brought them to the police's attention then the events that occurred resulting in their deaths wouldn't have happened.  Forgive my possible naïve point of view, but I don't think that I am alone in this point of view.  I think that this is mostly the white point of view.   

Don't get me wrong. I agree 100% that black lives matter as much as all lives matter.  It makes me sad that anybody would kill anybody else.  And I think that it is sad that each of these situations resulted in someone's death.  Anyhow I'm going off the rails on a very touchy subject.  I don't think that I have said anything too radical but just trying to provide a counter point of view.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:46
^ I am not what you would call anti-police at all. As a trouble making youth I had plenty of first hand experience with police officers, and I was often impressed with their patience and professionalism, but its well known in the black community that there are police officers who have an agenda against blacks, and officers who are straight up KKK.

This has been well documented in recent times via amateur videos and police dash cam videos etc. One video I can recall specifically shows an officer in South Carolina executing an older black man in the back as he tried to run. Another recent video shows an officer punching a black man in the head after he is handcuffed and pinned to the ground. This is all the more unfortunate as it makes it even harder for the good cops to do their job.

Edited by Easy Money - August 19 2017 at 12:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:50
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Nah...  See the guy who looks like he stepped right off the top of a wedding cake...

he was the important X.

The whole lot of the others.. including Trump.. buffoons. Dangerous in their own way... but limited to what they could do by their own buffoonery, inexperience.  As the last 7 months have shown... cleaning up after Bush took all Obama could do... cleaning up after Trump.. piece of cake. His damage is more to the social fabric of the nation rather than anything he actually does himself assuming he keeps us out of a Asiatic War.

Pence though is a true domestic danger...  and why again Trump is gone next year if Mueller finds what we suspect he will find.  Trump was not part of the Republican Party.. nor was truly supported by it ...he simply took it over.. and is f**king up their brand name.  Pence though.. he is one of them... and a very dangerous right wing fundie social activist. Something Trump is not. Unless Trump does a complete 180 and things continue as they have.  Trump will be gone if Mueller gives Congress political cover with their own voters to save their own asses for the midterms and attempt to preserve any chance of winning in 2020.
Yes! Pence scares me. Trump is just so incompetent at his job that we might be better off with him. Then again, Trump is so clearly unhinged that ousting him may be necessary. The cost may be elevating the VP to POTUS and, having sound experience in government, he may not be quite so incompetent in pushing his agenda and message. I just don't know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:54
^ make the Republicans oust him if he gets that bad, a premature impeachment process will be bad for the Dems.
I'm an independent, by the way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:57
^ again... bingo.  Clap I assume most of you aint'  black...  and knowing most of you generally. You aint' from the south. Racism.. is VERY much alive.  Whites aren't shot for being white... blacks still are.  

Black lives do matter (as much as any).

the Problem, though I won't single any out, I've seen the comments here.  Yes, they can and through history have been self defeating. Rioting and sh*tting where they live can be counterproductive.. but it still doesn't change the fact they have a valid point and one worhty of support, even among the honkiest of honkies who were born with a human trait SO lacking today. Empathy.. to say nothing of a sense of history of just how badly those people have been f**ked up the ass by us as honkie and our f**king government. I understand the anger even if occasionally shaking my head at the means they show it. Doesn't change the fact that unless you are a bigot or racist yourself... you should be 100% behind that movement.  All lives matter just as much, and the simple fact... proven more times than one can count over our history and still today.. black lives matter less to the 'man in charge' than whites.  That simply isn't right man... and against what should make this country great. What makes this country great isn't our ecomonic power.. nor our mililitary power.. it should be our moral power. One set out in the formation of this country.. but one unfortunately that has never fully been applied to its own people.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 11:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 12:15
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Nah...  See the guy who looks like he stepped right off the top of a wedding cake...

he was the important X.

The whole lot of the others.. including Trump.. buffoons. Dangerous in their own way... but limited to what they could do by their own buffoonery, inexperience.  As the last 7 months have shown... cleaning up after Bush took all Obama could do... cleaning up after Trump.. piece of cake. His damage is more to the social fabric of the nation rather than anything he actually does himself assuming he keeps us out of a Asiatic War.

Pence though is a true domestic danger...  and why again Trump is gone next year if Mueller finds what we suspect he will find.  Trump was not part of the Republican Party.. nor was truly supported by it ...he simply took it over.. and is f**king up their brand name.  Pence though.. he is one of them... and a very dangerous right wing fundie social activist. Something Trump is not. Unless Trump does a complete 180 and things continue as they have.  Trump will be gone if Mueller gives Congress political cover with their own voters to save their own asses for the midterms and attempt to preserve any chance of winning in 2020.
Yes! Pence scares me. Trump is just so incompetent at his job that we might be better off with him. Then again, Trump is so clearly unhinged that ousting him may be necessary. The cost may be elevating the VP to POTUS and, having sound experience in government, he may not be quite so incompetent in pushing his agenda and message. I just don't know.

as Ive often said.... it won't be Democrats that impeach Trump.  Pelosi and Schumer know that score.. better to survive the 2 or 3 remaining years of Trump than the 2 or 3 years of damage that Pence can do. He should, and among many, does scare people more than Trump.  The only way Pence scares us less is not being slave to his temper, anger, and absolute lack of any self reflection and discipline.  It is for North Korea and a war that will kill millions at a bare minimum... that we might want the calculating professional pol that is Pence over the fly by the seat of his pants domestic and geopolitical amateur that is Trump.

Domestically though.. nothing scares me more than 46 Pence.   Granted even Indiana was about to kick him to the curve....   a perfect exaample of the right wing social lunacy that still grips that party. However unlike Trump seems to be heading.. he actually would work with Congress to set this country back decades legislatively which will make the 2020 Democratic President's job all the harder.  Instead of moving us forward as a society and nation as Obama was uniquely positioned to do.. they'll be forced to expand significant amounts of time and political capital merely hit reset and clean up the messes of their predecessor.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 13:49
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'm not quite sure what HackettFan is trying to get at with his post, but I assume it is because I do not have a PhD in linguistics (congrats on that by the way).  The only reason that I typed the word Black in bold was to stress the word that people to tend to have a problem with in that catchphrase. 


Yes, you were adequately describing what their problem with it was by placing 'black' in bold. And I explained that that does not comport with what any and every native speaker understands about the language. They are being disingenuous by forming that interpretation. They are changing its meaning. Let's put it this way. A 'Black lives matter' activist would speak in a fashion as to put the sentence stress on 'matter' (place 'matter' in bold). This is the normal default way to utter sentences in English according to how information is typically packaged. If I say horses have four legs, one is not free to say that I am saying that sheep do not. If I say animals matter, one is not free to say that I am saying that humans do not. If I say that Linguistics is a cool cognitive science, one is not free to say that I am saying that Psychology is not.


Gotcha.  What you say makes sense to me now.  And I agree that there is a falseness to this interpretation.
Excellent! Spread it around. A few other posts recast my critique in more digestible fashion.
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I read far too many comment sections on CNN and other news websites.  The more real argument that is made is if "black lives matter" so much why do they only show up when there is death by police officer.  In the city of Detroit numerous blacks are murdered each and every day.  Chicago is a war zone.  More blacks die in Chicago then soldiers in the war on ISIS.  Where are the black lives matter folks then?  If black lives matter so much why are they not protesting these murders? 
Or trust and embrace the police as a partner to take care of it. Ah, but there is no trust in the police in many Black communities, however. The issue behind 'Black lives matter' is to seek equal treatment under the law. If that's achieved, then there is a basis for trust. Black on Black violence is a different issue. For most Whites who are victims of violence, that violence is perpetrated by other Whites. We have continuously failed to address White on White violence.

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Personally, I was raised to believe that the police are the good guys, and I still think that this is true.  I have no idea what the true story is behind all of the police officers shooting black people. 
I am also White. Although my parents started out in the city of Buffalo, I mainly grew up in a neighboring suburb. The suburb was even rated one year by some entity as the safest in the country. The police force was hyper professional there. In the city crime was a genuine problem. Later on I worked for ten years delivering pizza in Buffalo. It was a scary job, as I went around with a target on my back, and this was before things like caller ID, and cell phones were uncommon. Two of the times I was robbed by a Black person, two other times I was robbed by a White person (all four times the pizza seemed to be as important as the money in my estimation). While delivering, I also saw searches of Black males, once done right across from the pizzeria. They did not find anything and made no arrest and I thought and still think that it could not have been Constitutional. That outlines a bit of my personal experience.
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Almost every story that I have seen has involved a black man breaking the law and being shot by a police officer who was doing his or her job.  Police brutality?  Excessive force?  Fearing for their own lives?  Unlike the gang bangers who are killing each other without a second thought, I am pretty sure that every one of these police officers who may feel justified in what they have done, would if given a second chance tried to have found a way to have tried to end things differently.
Do you remember the video of a shooting in which a Black psychologist was trying to calm a Black patient of his? I don't remember everything about it, but it was on video and the psychologist was trying to de-escalate the situation and encourage his patient's cooperation with police instructions as you would expect a psychologist to do. A police officer on the scene shot the psychologist. The psychologist asked the police officer why he shot him. The police officer said, "I don't know." In addition to a PhD in Linguistics, I have a Masters in Psychology. Do you know how social psychologists prime feelings of anger in their experiments? They expose subjects to a photo of a Black man's face. They use this technique even when an experiment isn't studying race, but just negative emotions themselves. They do it because it's reliable. Being consciously against racism is not always enough. The bulk of our thought processes, including racial attitudes, are subject to automatic activation rather than conscious control. Awareness of this must be at the forefront of police training. There is a genuine danger that police are exposed to, but if individual police survival were actually the foremost and overriding consideration, then they should always shoot at every encounter or take every day off. We of course expect something more tempered. And they do deserve hefty salaries.
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I agree that most of these men did not commit a crime that deserved for them to be executed, but if they hadn't been committing the crime that brought them to the police's attention then the events that occurred resulting in their deaths wouldn't have happened.  Forgive my possible naïve point of view, but I don't think that I am alone in this point of view.  I think that this is mostly the white point of view.
I don't think we know the extent of how true this is or not because there are no statistics gathered on wrongful police shootings. It is surely correct in a good portion of cases, some that I may vaguely recall. However, the real issue is equal treatment under the law, and this means being sentenced by the judicial branch, not an arresting officer.
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I agree 100% that black lives matter as much as all lives matter.  It makes me sad that anybody would kill anybody else.  And I think that it is sad that each of these situations resulted in someone's death.  Anyhow I'm going off the rails on a very touchy subject.  I don't think that I have said anything too radical but just trying to provide a counter point of view.


Discussion appreciated.



Edited by HackettFan - August 19 2017 at 13:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2017 at 07:00
King Trump? What do you say everyone?  LOVE IT!!!  Though he misses the important point which complicates the whole situation.... what do we do with Pence? LOL

Great points about 'Trump voter' btw...




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2017 at 13:28
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.

Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 
Yes, our race issue is down to laws put on paper. We have done little to alter how people thinkabout race issues. The fact that Trump's Christian supporters failed to object to his "both sides were at fault" stance illustrates that clearly. If the church will not take a stand on race issues, how can it's followers?
 
As to black lives matter, wouldn't it be more correct to state black lives matter, too. (Just asking.)

I did mean that literally. When we finally got around the school integration in the 70s (literally my parents were alive holy sh*t) white people just moved. Out of cities, into farther suburbs, re-segregate ourselves. School segregation is now worse than it was in 1968! Ironically I believe the situation is best in the south, (where this was actually enforced) its worst in the midwest and especially northeast. And then for decades "dont see dont think about it" 

Heard a fascinating podcast on the matter, how even integration itself had racial biases. 
We never integrated the teachers first, (in fact integration was just used as an excuse to fire thousands of black teachers) so now: kids are thrown into this extremely difficult situation with no support. The teachers and parents couldnt get used to it slowly, we just threw it all together. 
Kinda like how we just ended reconstruction at the first possible moment (The Party of Lincoln sold out by 1877) and never took the long steps to slowly integrate economically, educate, ya know build up. We just throw sh*t together, say "whew done with that" and carry on. 
So yeah no surprise we dont think about it. Spend all our history trying to keep it at arms length and not think about it 

Well, I dont think its more accurate, like I said thats already what it basically means just people dont get that.... I suppose it could be made clearer by saying black lives matter too, but should they really have to? If people are racist enough (or dense enough) to not get what it means, or be that offended at the thought: black lives matter...why cater to em? Hope is probably lost on them anyway
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2017 at 13:33
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ make the Republicans oust him if he gets that bad, a premature impeachment process will be bad for the Dems.
I'm an independent, by the way.

Oh absolutely. The Dems will look like the GOP of the late 90s. 
Which is bullsh*t, they have very very legitimate reasons to try and impeach Trump while they tried on Clinton just to oust him, but that's how people will see it unfortunately. It will drive people back into their camps of party politics. Agreed....we have to live with him and if its gunna happen the GOP will need to do it. 
Which I still think (hear me out) is not such a bad thing. Trump is ruining the GOP. They will suffer long as hes in the WH, and frankly he will get much less done than Pence. 

Trump bumbling, stumbling, tweeting himself to oblivion is good for the Dems all around. It also forces the GOP to keep playing this game of balancing supporting/criticizing him which is getting more and more difficult with this nazi stuff.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2017 at 13:41
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ I am not what you would call anti-police at all. As a trouble making youth I had plenty of first hand experience with police officers, and I was often impressed with their patience and professionalism, but its well known in the black community that there are police officers who have an agenda against blacks, and officers who are straight up KKK.

This has been well documented in recent times via amateur videos and police dash cam videos etc. One video I can recall specifically shows an officer in South Carolina executing an older black man in the back as he tried to run. Another recent video shows an officer punching a black man in the head after he is handcuffed and pinned to the ground. This is all the more unfortunate as it makes it even harder for the good cops to do their job.

Yeah few are actually "anti police" I'd say most people are supportive of police. We just accept that some are racist, which as you point out is not remotely new or shocking. 
We dont want chaos, cops being killed, any of that. 
We're the normal ones, its the right who has (again surely due to racial biases) concocted this image that its 100 or 0. You either support the police (which means not even have a slightly negative breath around them and defend them to the death no matter what) or you are an anarchist radical who wants mobs shooting cops. Doesnt help that the police community seems to generally support each other instead of just ousting bad ones (but sadly this is normal). 
And like you say this does make it harder for good cops. We are completely realistic, it's these daddy state conservative types that are the problem. But again thats nothing new, they've been wooed by this type stuff since the days of Nixon. 


Related to one of my above points om how Trump is a cynical way good for the Dems. 
Now, nothing is ever in stasis especially these days, who knows how little itll take to scare em back to GOP but I'm hopeful they have seen their error and, assuming the candidate isn't dreadful and the Dems have a real economic platform, hopefully 2018 and esp 2020 is swinging to us


Edited by JJLehto - August 20 2017 at 14:53
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