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Topic ClosedPlease seperate Post Rock and Math Rock

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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 13:02
OK, so the current team for post and math rock is actually Anglmk, Atavachron, Alex and maybe Slava. It just hasn't been updated on the collab page yet.
It seems to me that these are the people who can best recommend a split or not, or at least their opinion should be taken into strong consideration.

Edited by Easy Money - June 04 2011 at 13:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 14:02

Well, David and Alex have given their opinions and Angel and Slava have both visited the forum today, so I assume they're happy with what Alex and David have said so far. Jody is also still suggesting bands to the Math Rock team so perhaps his opinion is worth garnering since he was intrumental setting up the initial pairing.

What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 14:15
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

I don't know anything about math rock, as I've avoided it. I associated it once with Dillinger Escape Plan, and I hate that band, so I've avoided math rock as best I could. Post rock, though, I've fell in love with (well, post rock + post metal). When I think of post rock, just rock, I think of Sigur Ros and with them I think of ethereal, dreamy soundscapes and long, slow build-and-release formulas. I think of either highly distorted background picking, or highly undistorted foreground picking. I think of dense and surrounding recording techniques, and I think of the band going 'oh-okay, we're gonna focus on the notes instead of the structures', and finally, when I think of post rock, I think of a bar of wood that also happens to be a stone boulder.

When I think of math rock, all I can picture is Cynic without the death metal aspect, or "tech prog for Rush fans" or what have you. 
Your judgement of math rock seems to be clouded by metal... math rock does often share a similarity with metal but its not really related for the most part at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

The only way to really know a genre is listen to a lot of bands in that genre.

Has anybody in this discussion listened to a lot of different math rock and post rock bands?
yup
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 14:17
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

OK, so the current team for post and math rock is actually Anglmk, Atavachron, Alex and maybe Slava. It just hasn't been updated on the collab page yet.
Angelo is in the process of tidying up the Collab ranks. I understand the confusion - perhaps we need a different title/honorific for past team members and those on sabbatical (like Ian), though (with deference to David et al), I'm not a fan of the "Specialist" tag.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 17:12
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

OK, so the current team for post and math rock is actually Anglmk, Atavachron, Alex and maybe Slava. It just hasn't been updated on the collab page yet.

Angelo is in the process of tidying up the Collab ranks. I understand the confusion - perhaps we need a different title/honorific for past team members and those on sabbatical (like Ian), though (with deference to David et al), I'm not a fan of the "Specialist" tag.

Its a large busy site, its hard to keep up with all that, people come and go all the time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 17:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Well, David and Alex have given their opinions and Angel and Slava have both visited the forum today, so I assume they're happy with what Alex and David have said so far. Jody is also still suggesting bands to the Math Rock team so perhaps his opinion is worth garnering since he was intrumental setting up the initial pairing.


All that sounds good, from what I can tell, David and Alex sort of support a split but don't want to cause problems, which seems like a reasonable stance. I (or anyone else that I know of) haven't mentioned this to Slava specifically, so I'm not sure of his opinion, but I'm making an educated guess that he would probably support it too. I'll send him a message so he can respond himself.

Thanks for looking into this. Its totally understandable how they ended up together in the first place.

I think Bob's caution about new genres causing more non-prog additions is wise and prudent and I have used that line of thinking as a model on decisions myself, but I think this is a unique situation.

It just seems to me that they are such different genres that combining them just doesn't seem right.

Edited by Easy Money - June 04 2011 at 17:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 17:30
Just had a quick chat with Slava about it and he says he will drop by tomorrow and check it out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2011 at 08:10
I'm sorry for my delay, being busy on JMA I am far not regular PA visitor.

It happened to be Post/Math rock team's member for me for some time, so I have some comments just from my previous experience.

I think Post-Rock and Math are quite different genres and are related for sure but possibly on the level as some other prog genres are related between each other. Having them both as one tag/team has historical reason on PA and possibly the other reason is both genres has not too much fans (the number of artists are not so small and are growing, both genres aren't "archive" as Canterbury for example).

So, speaking from musicological point of view I believe their separation would have sense. Another question is such separation will lead to forming of two small genres teams (but in fact same situation occurs now but just isn't formalized)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 03:45
To the OP and anyone else interested in some math rock recommendations, a few personal favorites are:
Zach Hill and Peer Pressure - Astrological Straits (god, everyone needs this album)
Bygones - By - (10 killer songs between Nick Reinhart of Tera Melos and Zach Hill. seriously rad.)
Hella - Hold Your Horse Is* (my introduction to math rock. all instrumental. a classic)
Hella - There's No 666 In Outer Space (sick. to my knowledge, the first Hella release with a prominent vocalist. kind of a more raw, mathier TMV... or something. you decide.)

*fixedBig smile

All 4 of these albums feature the one of a kind Zach Hill on drums and he is a f*****g animal on every track. Zach Hill is the essential math rock drummer IMO.

Also... I feel like I may be kicking a dead horse here, so I'll make it short and sweet. I too feel like these 2 genres are on the verge of opposites musically, although they may have similarities in origination. I'd like to see an individual math rock category, but I also understand if it's too much of an undertaking to achieve this.


Edited by EchidnasArf - July 11 2011 at 12:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 08:57
Originally posted by EchidnasArf EchidnasArf wrote:

Hella - Republic of Rough and Ready (my introduction to math rock. all instrumental. a classic)
Hella - There's No 666 In Outer Space (sick. to my knowledge, the first Hella release with a prominent vocalist. kind of a more raw, mathier TMV... or something. you decide.)
Republic of Rough and Ready is a song from the album Hold Your Horse Is, I have no idea who you are referring to as Peer Pressure but quite a few people play on Astrological Straits (I found it a bit too poppy and repetitive for my taste), and There's No 666 In Outer Space is the only Hella release with a singer--thankfully, they fired him and the bassist in 2009, so the new album being released in August is back to the two of them. You can hear a song from the new album here. You should listen to Cryptomnesia if you liked There's No 666, though.


Edited by Henry Plainview - July 11 2011 at 09:00
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:27
ShockedHah, my mistake. I was listening to the song "Republic of Rough and Ready" when I was typing that. Hold Your Horse Is has been one of my favorite albums since '04. He was going under the moniker "Zach Hill and Peer Pressure" when he released and toured Astrological Straits. The moniker referred to his band and his drumset (go figure). Just search Zach Hill and Peer Pressure to find some press about this project. And Astrological Straits is poppy like Dillinger Escape Plan is easy listening. If you liked Cryptomnesia or any of his work with Hella, you need to give Astrological Straits another chance. The drumming is out of this world. It is a drum album first and foremost.

Now someone buy me this shirt please.


Edited by EchidnasArf - July 11 2011 at 12:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 14:00
How did this thread turn into Zach Hill is teh awesome?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 14:05
When Henry Plainview pointed out my mistake and said he hadn't heard of Peer Pressure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 17:34
The topic is a mildly important one of whether Post and Math rock should remain a dual genre.  The central issue is; though Post and Math rock are musicologically related and often lumped together, they have become distinct styles that may or may not appeal to fans of either style.  The process of finding and separating bands in the two genres would be laborious and time consuming but not impossible, as over 90% of Mathrock is noted as such in the biography of a given Mathrock band.

Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 19:49
Post rock and Math rock are not totally different genres, they are related enough to be put in one category, so i am happy with current situation having those together. BUT they have enough distinctive features to be genres of their own, separate genres, and i wouldn't object if someone is willing to split those genres and do that split since it is time consuming job and requires hard work . We will have another problem with recruiting math rock team members cos there aren't many experts on math rock on PA if any, except David.  
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