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TheGazzardian 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 11 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Online
Points: 8667
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 Posted: November 19 2010 at 17:58 |
I voted no, but this is a really loaded question and my brain could probably trail for hours coming up with circumstances where I would and would not do so. Suffice it to say though that I believe there's a bit more to a country than just the lines on the map - and while a lot of liberties most of us have are taken for granted if one of the countries that wasn't quite so giving was involved, then maybe.
But I voted no because I'm not really sure who's going to be coming after Canada these days. We were lucky to have been "created" long after the tribal wars that shaped Europe and so forth, so our geography doesn't quite have the same history. And our only neighbouring country is pretty friendly with us.
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John McIntyre
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Status: Offline
Points: 91
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 18:21 |
I voted no.
It's a pure accident of birth that we have the nationality we have.
My country won't die for me, so why should I die for my country?
The implication is that my country is at war with another. This means that my elected representatives (bloody politicians) have mucked it up, and expect me to compensate for their incompetance with my life. Not a chance.
I will never pick up a gun and kill someone, unless it's one of those (censored) politicians that got me into this mess in the first place.
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I am one of only about 1,800 people in the world with an original M400 Mellotron!
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 20:38 |
 The T wrote:
I guess you are also ready to kill for your country, aren't you all who said "yes"? |
Depends on who I would have to kill. I wouldn't kill an innocent person for my country, but I would kill someone who was threatening me or my country, sure.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 20:51 |
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
I guess you are also ready to kill for your country, aren't you all who said "yes"? |
Depends on who I would have to kill. I wouldn't kill an innocent person for my country, but I would kill someone who was threatening me or my country, sure.
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Exactly, I wouldn't kill an innocent people for anybody, but if somebody threatens the life of my family, enters with a gun in house or rises a weapon against my country, I would kill.
BTW: A country is not just a place where you were born, a country groups - A common culture
- Religion
- Family
- Way of life
- Affective ties
At least for me, my country is very important, despite the fuc**ng politicians.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 19 2010 at 23:35
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 20:56 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
I guess you are also ready to kill for your country, aren't you all who said "yes"? |
Depends on who I would have to kill. I wouldn't kill an innocent person for my country, but I would kill someone who was threatening me or my country, sure.
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Exactly, I wouldn't kill an innocent people for anybody, but if somebody threatens the life of my family, enters with a gun in house or rises a weapon against my country, I would kill.
Iván |
But I don't believe you should kill anything you don't intend to eat.  
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 19 2010 at 23:34 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
But I don't believe you should kill anything you don't intend to eat.
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Don't made me remember, that was the rule at home when I got my first rifle.
I was forced to clean and eat two birds and a reptile I shoot....My sister always told my mother.
Iván.
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Chela
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 165
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Posted: November 24 2010 at 22:41 |
John McIntyre wrote:
I voted no.
It's a pure accident of birth that we have the nationality we have.
My country won't die for me, so why should I die for my country?
The implication is that my country is at war with another. This means that my elected representatives (bloody politicians) have mucked it up, and expect me to compensate for their incompetance with my life. Not a chance.
I will never pick up a gun and kill someone, unless it's one of those (censored) politicians that got me into this mess in the first place. |
Yep.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 17:13 |
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Absolutely not.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Jörgemeister
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2008
Location: Nauticus
Status: Offline
Points: 2296
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Posted: November 28 2010 at 20:13 |
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Not even if my country worth killing for.
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NecronCommander
Special Collaborator
Prog Metal Team
Joined: September 17 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 16122
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Posted: November 28 2010 at 20:49 |
I answered no, and I did it on the basis of would I voluntarily join the military in a combatant position, which I would not.
However, if for some reason the draft were enacted in the near future and I was required to take up arms for my country, I wouldn't flee to Canada or anything.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 28 2010 at 22:24 |
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How about if I just dine for my country instead?
Edited by Slartibartfast - December 11 2010 at 06:16
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cyclysm748
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2008
Location: ND
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 14:14 |
Textbook wrote:
By "for your country" I mean because the government asks so, reasons irrelevant. This may seem like an idiotic prospect to people today- I'm not going to die just because a politician requests it- but not that long ago you would have found plenty of people who felt it was their solemn duty to leap under a passing bus if their queen or president requested it. What I'm saying is that feeling has deteriorated (well not everywhere, it's very much alive in China for example) and now people are saying either "no" or "yes but only if there was some sort of threat" which actually means no because you're reacting to the threat, not the will of the country's leaders. |
In that case, no I would not. If I knew why I might be dying and there was a good reason, say protecting those closest to me, yes.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 15:26 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
How about if I just dine for my country instead?
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I served. The food was not that bad. To be honest I just wanted to fly jets. My country allowed me to do that. I managed an exchange tour with the RAAF so I guess it was my job. I considered it a job. The F-111 was a high point in my life. If I was ordered to do the job I would have done it. No questions. I 'm getting hungry.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: December 06 2010 at 20:20 |
Related question, would you refuse a draft for a political war? I would have refused the draft for Vietnam I'm pretty sure. (I say "political war" because let's say WWII where Hitler clearly had designs on world conquest, the question is not so interesting because you'd be a moron not to fight an evil maniac intent on destroying you and everyone you know. But a war fought for resources or ideology, would you refuse a draft there?)
Not sure this question needs its own poll, maybe later.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: December 07 2010 at 07:04 |
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Brazil only fought worth-wile wars, so I would say yes.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: December 07 2010 at 11:22 |
Country is a complex concept. At the end, my country is my people, family, friends, community and the people with whom I share my life with, so I think I would kill somebody who is threaten my family-friends-community, but not in the name of a Country.
200 years ago, of course I might get enrolled in the military to defend my nation... but in the lights of these days, we all know that wars are more complicated and the interests are different... so, I vote NO. Complex though...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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krishl
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 05 2009
Location: Land of Enchant
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: December 07 2010 at 16:08 |
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Yes.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: December 07 2010 at 20:09 |
Textbook wrote:
Related question, would you refuse a draft for a political war? I would have refused the draft for Vietnam I'm pretty sure. (I say "political war" because let's say WWII where Hitler clearly had designs on world conquest, the question is not so interesting because you'd be a moron not to fight an evil maniac intent on destroying you and everyone you know. But a war fought for resources or ideology, would you refuse a draft there?)
Not sure this question needs its own poll, maybe later. |
I think it does, but yes I would dodge the draft. I would do so proudly too.
I think people that allow themselves to be drafted should be ashamed.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 07 2010 at 20:40 |
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GaryB
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 451
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Posted: December 08 2010 at 09:15 |
Maybe the question should be "Would you FIGHT for your country?"
There were, give or take, three million Americans that served in Viet Nam and the total number of deaths was a little over 57,000.
You do not go to war with the intent of dying for your country. You go to war to make the other guy die for his country.
BTW...I see some comments on one global government being the answer to a lot of, if not all of our current problems. But no one has said how we will get to one global government.
Will it be a peaceful transition or is it something that will have to be fought for?
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Would You Die For Your Country?
