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Finnforest 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Online
Points: 16913
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 Posted: August 24 2009 at 10:17 |
 sleeper wrote:
I dont think I'd go that far, there isnt nothing on Idmen that gets as heavy as Backbone or The Heaviest Matter in the Universe, but its certainly a very heavy album thats nicely offset with quiter moments.
How does the trumpet on Ninth Wave go down with you lot? I think its wonderful how it works with that song. |
I have to listen again. My perspective was from only one listen of their myspace tracks. But I didn't expect to care much, since I am now luke warm on Susar. I'm planning on getting this one.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 15:29 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
micky wrote:
what an interesting thread.... and a surprise to see me and my review tossed into the mix.
would have been nice to mention the only 1 star reviews I did.... 2 of them... both albums I adore.. and listen to, and find much more interesting than much of the sh*t that many of you rate as 5 star albums.. .simply because you like it.
pssst.... words of wisdom for those who would actually like to 'review' albums rather than get your lonely voice out in the ether of the internet. People simply don't care if you like an album or not... I know I don't and many of the people I have met over the years here do not either. Raff and I have a wall of several 1000 prog albums.. and we have listened to every one of them. I review, and wish more did.. with an objective eye not to whether you like an album or not... but where that albums fits in the grand scheme of prog. Don't confuse what you like...with what is best... and what you do not like... with what sucks.
great topic whoever started it...  If people don't want objective reviews... then all they do is seek reviews that validate their feelings. Screw that... you are prog fans.. supposedly intelligent music listeners... use your heads.
For the review Dean pointed out.... I HATED that album.. but in it's funny way... that made it a masterpiece of Prog Metal... . it stood for everything I hate about prog metal. For those who love those aspects.. and there are a lot... it is a masterpiece.. and deserves the acclaim it gets.
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You know, I got the feeling when reading this it was uncannily similar to the contrary polemic of the Ian Penman/Paul Morley axis from Sounds UK music spreadsheet circa 79. (That's both a compliment and a criticism)
Yes, approving only of reviews that validate your prejudices would tie your musical appreciation to a parked car, but this is the cynical perspective of journalism - why let good music get in the way of dismantling the irrational wonder that great art is capable of stirring within all of us ? (Jeez I know, that sounded a tad w**ky) I do appreciate your interest is that of the 'bigger picture' and where the music sits in the historical framework of the 'progressive tradition', but you come across here as depicting yourself as the 'watcher of the skies.' 
The 'objectivity' you cite is really only tantamount to a deficit of credulousness (which I admire and applaud, and let's face it, long exposure to the earnest semantics of hippies is begging for some abrasive relief) but I know from my own reviews that despite my best attempts to appear even handed and non-partisan, I am really just writing about MYSELF, you cant separate the knower from the known....
I'll get me coat...
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whoa..... I think you mistake me for one of those 'intelligent' prog fans.  Props from the Big Mick if anyone can translate the above into 'Micky-speak'... ie. grunts and squeals. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 16:18 |
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I really dig the new album. It should get about a 4 from me.
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 17:00 |
I really like this album but i know that it can be rough on the ears for someone who doesn't like too much intensity in music. It's like going to a horror movie and being shocked by some scenes.  It's a extreme post-metal album...
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 17:10 |
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as an added note re "Idmen". I listen to intense & extreme music, within and outside of prog. That did not have any impact on my opinion of the album. And frankly, in some earlier reviews I did, I would give a 3 because the album(s) were O.K. . But then I realized that this meant that good albums would be bunched up with these "O.K." albums. So I now fit an album's rating in the scale of things. And Idmen fits the bottom fifth. Unlike Susar, which is a clear 4.
Edited by debrewguy - August 24 2009 at 17:11
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 17:22 |
rdtprog wrote:
I really like this album but i know that it can be rough on the ears for someone who doesn't like too much intensity in music. It's like going to a horror movie and being shocked by some scenes. It's a extreme post-metal album... |
ITS NOT POST METAL!
Sorry, pet peev of mine.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13502
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 21:08 |
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic  . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 21:43 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
I take it, John, you got my album, and I'm going to be number three?
I think I give relatively few low ratings, and even as something of a musician, I mainly judge an album on how much it moves me, how much I enjoy it, and how memorable it is. I think for me, those three things are key, which I guess is why I can rate certain "important" albums low while rating high the "not so important."
One star ratings, as I believe I have mentioned, are for those works that I'm sure I will refrain from listening to ever again (for whatever reason and despite multiple listens prior to reviewing them). I do take the genre into consideration (as I believe my track record shows and will continue to show). A one star review for me is never for an album I don't enjoy, but for an album I can't stand to hear (with one notable exception, I believe, which I am considering changing anyway).
As far as my album goes, people are welcome to rate and review it however they wish (though, to be honest, I do wonder why so many rip it on production qualities and yet rate albums a five which even they acknowledge are shoddily produced). As an artist, I would much rather hear what people have to say with regards to the compositions- that is genuinely where my heart is. But, to each his own! 
Hope you're well John!
And Micky, John is right. I truly miss "your face." I honestly believed it was your face also.
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Dominic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2008
Location: Liberation Land
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 21:58 |
One great thing about this thread is that Idmen is getting a bit of exposure, and some folks that might have missed out on this beauty of an album are giving it a try. We've turned all this into something positive. Hugs, everyone 
Edited by Dominic - August 24 2009 at 21:58
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 22:00 |
Dominic wrote:
One great thing about this thread is that Idmen is getting a bit of exposure, and some folks that might have missed out on this beauty of an album are giving it a try. We've turned all this into something positive.
Hugs, everyone
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Absolutely.
My musical tastes may be perfect, but that's okay if others have different ones.
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Plankowner
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 09 2008
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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Posted: August 24 2009 at 22:42 |
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Even bad publicity is good publicity..
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 01:32 |
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 05:43 |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Sikor
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 08 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 16
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 07:19 |
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1* for Idmen? It has to be joke. And not funny joke.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 07:47 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
I regularly run into the mindset that if I must give a 1 or 2 star review, it should not be based on whether I like the album or not, at least to a degree. It would be for a poorly executed, including production, release or one that merely is filler, such as a B-sides type album. There are quite a few albums that if I solely placed my taste for the style, they'd get a 1 or 2 star rating. For this reason, I stay away from those that fall under the genres I don't care for. Example: It is why I don't rate Zappa. I simply don't care for his antics or voice. My attitude in this respect should not detract from an honest review, which I would not be qualified to give.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 17:25 |
Plankowner wrote:
Even bad publicity is good publicity.. |
tell that to Torman Mass hahahha and the old avatar is back....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 17:34 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
actually John where the strength of the site is, as far as reviews go, are all the different styles. We have those who rate highly what they like.. trash what they don't. We have those that try to 'inform' us as to what you might get if you purchase the album (the best kind of reviews IMO), and those who try to make comparative analysis between the group's albums ...and other albums of the era. The wealth of different reviewing styles is a plus I thinks. I know the site Raff reviews for has strict guidelines as to layout and content (which is driven by the required layout). Personally I think many of the reviews here are sh*t... but the site does do a GREAT job in noticing and 'promoting' those who DO make good reviews. What makes a good review though. Hmmm.. probably some mix of the three.. whether the reviewer intends to do that or not. I don't know many PR's that have been promoted on the basis of ' I love this album... 5 stars'.. or 'bad production.. and I don't like it... 2 stars'. Yawn...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13502
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Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:46 |
Epignosis wrote:
sinkadotentree wrote:
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
I take it, John, you got my album, and I'm going to be number three?
I think I give relatively few low ratings, and even as something of a musician, I mainly judge an album on how much it moves me, how much I enjoy it, and how memorable it is. I think for me, those three things are key, which I guess is why I can rate certain "important" albums low while rating high the "not so important."
One star ratings, as I believe I have mentioned, are for those works that I'm sure I will refrain from listening to ever again (for whatever reason and despite multiple listens prior to reviewing them). I do take the genre into consideration (as I believe my track record shows and will continue to show). A one star review for me is never for an album I don't enjoy, but for an album I can't stand to hear (with one notable exception, I believe, which I am considering changing anyway).
As far as my album goes, people are welcome to rate and review it however they wish (though, to be honest, I do wonder why so many rip it on production qualities and yet rate albums a five which even they acknowledge are shoddily produced). As an artist, I would much rather hear what people have to say with regards to the compositions- that is genuinely where my heart is. But, to each his own!
Hope you're well John!
And Micky, John is right. I truly miss "your face." I honestly believed it was your face also.
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Sorry for the rant Robert, and everyone else too. I sometimes take criticism to music or albums that i love too personally. I think it bothered me more than usual Robert because i know your a musician and a collaborator here,whereas if it was just someone new to the site ot someone i didn't respect i would just roll my eyes and that would be that.It felt good to get it off my chest but i realized it shouldn't be at the expense of others. I do get it.We all have out ways of reviewing,i do too. I'll just have to get used to it.
By the way Robert please keep away from any Anekdoten cds. My heart couldn't take it. Hope your well too. 
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13502
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Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:54 |
Thanks for the input Micky. Those words make too much sense i just lost it for a second there. I agree that's what's so cool about this site is that any Joe Blow can give his opinion, i think i need to step back and not take what other people say too seriously for my own sanity. I was doing so well there.Back to therapy . Oh and thanks for bringing back your avatar. Now if we can only get Finnforest back in line. 
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13502
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Posted: August 28 2009 at 21:03 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
sinkadotentree wrote:
I'm really glad that Sleeper,Negoba,StyLaZyn and Finnforest are enjoying "Idmen".I know the rating has no where to go but up for this amazing album.
I've given 2 one star reviews so far and both were really to make a point about bands who should know better. We all have our own rating systems i guess with ProgArchives as our guide in that,but for me to give 1 star to an album that i don't "get" or simply don't enjoy is my problem, and it's insulting to say it's "poor" not only to the band but to the other reviewers who like it so much.That's my feeling on it. Epignosis i'm sure doesn't mind seeing 1 and 2 star reviews for his album either 'cause that's acceptible right? You don't enjoy it so 1 star it is. "You live by the sword you die by the sword" i read that somewhere.Sorry for being so dramatic . Heck Robert if you get into Rio/Avant your 1 star reviews might pass your 3 star ratings.Just a thought. It's just that there's a lot of difficult and unmelodic music out there. I must admit i review as a fan not as a critic and that's where i disagree with Micky about the objective/subjective thing. I'm not a musician and not smart enough to say that "Close To The Edge" is brilliantly arranged and played so 5 stars it is.All i know is that compared to the many recordings i've heard over a lot of years that album is one of my favourites and it does stand out. For me it has everything to do with whether i like it or not.And sure great playing and songs(to my ears anyway(subjective)) are what makes me like it(or not). But i think if people know that. Like Jim(Finnforest) i keep all my 4 and 5 star cds in an accessible place so they get played.There is nothing in that bookshelf that i don't like. I miss your old avatar Micky, the one with that album cover from "Sulle Corde Di Aries".I used to think that was your picture until i found out it was an album cover. |
I regularly run into the mindset that if I must give a 1 or 2 star review, it should not be based on whether I like the album or not, at least to a degree. It would be for a poorly executed, including production, release or one that merely is filler, such as a B-sides type album. There are quite a few albums that if I solely placed my taste for the style, they'd get a 1 or 2 star rating. For this reason, I stay away from those that fall under the genres I don't care for.
Example: It is why I don't rate Zappa. I simply don't care for his antics or voice. My attitude in this respect should not detract from an honest review, which I would not be qualified to give.
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I think we all have to rate by our consciousness.I try to do that both ways,i've given 5 stars then later dropped it to 4 because it just didn't feel right to me. I've also bumped up ratings months later.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Indukti- Idmen, 2.83 rating!?
