Prog's not prog.

Oh, and here it is on youtube!   The essence of Opeth.  Although I had the words reversed.  enjoy!

LanCaiHe wrote: My God, I've listened to more Opeth than I ever care to again.  I just listened to two more tunes.  If anything at all they are Goth Metal.  If I had the distasteful task of categorizing their music, that's what heading I would put them under.   We had an add compaign here where I live years ago for a sticker to put on household cleaning products to protect young children from poisoning themselves. It was a green sad face sticker.  It was called "Mr. Yuck."   The theme music for the slogan was this simple tune built on a diminished chord and a tritone that said "Mr. Yuck is green, Mr. Yuck is Mean!"   It sounded exactly like the two Opeth songs I just listened to.    LanCaiHe wrote: Yes, well, I went back to that band Opeth, and they are definitely not prog.  There is just nothing special about it.  I can't even stand waiting for them to start talking.  Remind me of that movie by the Kids in the Hall "Brain Candy".....that metal band called "Grievo". LOL  So boring. :-(

Although I do have to take issue with your term "old timers" because I know quite a few people that are in their early twenties and several under 18 years of age that do agree that Progressive Metal is not PROG.  They identify prog as the style of music that is played by the bands that I mentioned.  So it is NOT an age issue.

LanCaiHe wrote: I see what you are saying.  So, I must review Progressive Metal, so called, within it's own category Metal, to see if it is actually improving upon it's category, correct?    So the said "Metal" music might have to be incorporating elements of more complex music, i.e. more unusual chord progressions, modulations, more free and liberal usage of modal thematic material, time signature changes etc.  to be called Progressive Metal? harmonium.ro wrote: LanCaiHe wrote: Good suggestion!   However, the term Progressive Metal is sort of an "oxymoron" I suppose.   Black Sabbath sounds more progressive now than the so-called Progressive Metal of today.  hehe       harmonium.ro wrote: Of course Opeth is not "prog". Opeth is progressive metal, which is not "prog" (like King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc.). We should quit using "prog" when talking about modern progressive genres because old-timers don't know what we're talking about.  Not at all an oxymoron, you just haven't listened to progressive metal, and the little progressive metal you've listened you're not interested in understanding it as progressive metal because you simply don't like it and you define something as progressive if it "progresses" like Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Yes etc. did. (It's true though that there are many progressive metal bands that are not really very progressive, I'm not talking about the whole genre, but only about those bands who are progressive in a certain degree).

Ah, Ok, so I understand that it is a requirement to not disagree with people so that you can remain in the club?   Interesting.   Do I get a special Opeth ring if I follow the rules? 

harmonium.ro wrote: ^ It is an age issue, exceptions to the rule are just that, exceptions. And btw this site is open to any forms of progressive rock or progressive metal, not just what you call "prog". I choose not to call "prog" a lot of the progressive stuff that I like becuase of this kind of misunderstandings and prejudices. And your attitude on Opeth is not something which is shared by our community, and does not do you any favour as a credible member.

I will try to change my attitude in future posts as to not voice my opinion so strongly so as not to offend.

harmonium.ro wrote: As I already said, it's about attitude, not opinion.

Hi, I listened to Porcelain Heart, Windowpane, Burden, Bleak, and the Grand Conjuration.  I think I started to listen to a few others but couldn't get past the intros.  I was most impressed that they had a keyboard player, but most of the time I couldn't hear any keyboards on the live stuff.   I think I've been misinterpreting this website.  Seems that everything is progressive and they just keep splitting bands down into smaller and smaller categories.  I thought it was funny that they give Italy it's own category.   I guess progressive classical would be Claude Debussy, or Stravinsky, or Jehan Alain.  

Nuke wrote: LanCaiHe wrote: My God, I've listened to more Opeth than I ever care to again.  I just listened to two more tunes.  If anything at all they are Goth Metal.  If I had the distasteful task of categorizing their music, that's what heading I would put them under.   We had an add compaign here where I live years ago for a sticker to put on household cleaning products to protect young children from poisoning themselves. It was a green sad face sticker.  It was called "Mr. Yuck."   The theme music for the slogan was this simple tune built on a diminished chord and a tritone that said "Mr. Yuck is green, Mr. Yuck is Mean!"   It sounded exactly like the two Opeth songs I just listened to.    LanCaiHe wrote: Yes, well, I went back to that band Opeth, and they are definitely not prog.  There is just nothing special about it.  I can't even stand waiting for them to start talking.  Remind me of that movie by the Kids in the Hall "Brain Candy".....that metal band called "Grievo". LOL  So boring. :-( Heh, not goth metal at all, but judging by your posts you probably don't care to learn all about the different genres of metal. Opeth are basically a death metal band at their core, but they take lots of influences from progressive rock and other genres outside metal, so that makes them "progressive metal" in a sense. Maybe they are a bit goth in that they are slow and melodic, but that could also make them doom, drone, ect. Kudos for giving them so many chances, what songs did you listen to?

No problem, thanks for the interesting read, I will definitely check it out.  I've never thought of Henry Cow as avant pop, maybe avant broadway sometimes such as Desperate Straights, but usually I've seen them as progressive rock.   I think I might agree with you on Bjork, that sort of fits the description you gave.  Threre are also a number of young classical composers that are apparently writing for rock groups now because they cannot get their symphonic works played by orchestras.  Interesting!

Logan wrote: LanCaiHe wrote: Avant Pop??????  That sounds like an obvious contradiction to me.   Sort of like saying an intelligent idiot? Sorry for the belated response, but I was away and just noticed this now. Avant-Pop (and experimental pop) commonly refers to music that employs conventional pop idioms/ form such as a verse/ bridge/ chorus structure and common pop harmonic melodies and puts experimental, avant-garde spins on the music. Bowie and Bjork, for example, have music that is considered Avant-Pop.  I don't think it's unintelligent to play around with Pop conventions and incorporate avant-garde elements.... Rock is generally a simple form of music (and often considered a subset of Pop), and I don't blame bands for using standard rock conventions as a base for more progressive music (e.g. Progressive Rock).  Tell me it's a pop rock album, and I probably won't be that interested, however. Here's a fun little read: http://www.altx.com/manifestos/avant.pop.manifesto.html

LanCaiHe wrote:   I think I've been misinterpreting this website.  Seems that everything is progressive and they just keep splitting bands down into smaller and smaller categories.  I thought it was funny that they give Italy it's own category.   I guess progressive classical would be Claude Debussy, or Stravinsky, or Jehan Alain.

Yep.  We're pretty much all idiots here.  At least this is a niche site that no one visits or takes seriously.

Haha!  I totally agree! 

SMSM wrote: The Gentle Giant recordings: The Missing Piece and Giant for a Day are some of the greatest pop recordings around.   Kansas recordings with Steve Morse are terrific, but need redoing to get rid of that 80's synth drum sound and other new wave effects    The Rennaisance recordings starting with Camera Camera, When Geneis became Phil Collins back up band in the 80's and Asia recordings of that same time period are not prog.   Personally, I consider Pink Floyd's Money and Jethro Tull's Aqualung to be rock songs, not prog songs