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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 07:25
Obama urges higher efficiency standards for household appliances
 
 
 
 
Does anybody know what he proposed exactly ? Is the proposal realistic enough to be implemented or it will be another flurry of useless activity paid for by tax dollars?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 08:13
I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.
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Points: 32550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 08:26
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.


That iceberg wouldn't be in danger of melting, would it be?




Sorry, couldn't resist.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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crimhead View Drop Down
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 13:55
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.


That iceberg wouldn't be in danger of melting, would it be?




Sorry, couldn't resist.


With any luck it would melt and flood Washington,DC. Tongue
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 15:36
Originally posted by crimhead crimhead wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.


That iceberg wouldn't be in danger of melting, would it be?




Sorry, couldn't resist.


With any luck it would melt and flood Washington,DC. Tongue


If I'm not mistaken WDC is in a low lying area. LOL

Which kind of makes me wonder at what rate is old George spinning in his grave for being named after the place. Tongue




Edited by Slartibartfast - February 07 2009 at 17:49
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 16:05
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.
We have to start somewhere... if technology allows it  why not lower the usage at the consumer level. After all an average electric bill runs $100 a month, we have about 60 mln households in this country, and business, big and small, would use less energy eventually too. Though I am pretty sceptical the proposal is viable
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 16:07



Edited by Slartibartfast - February 06 2009 at 19:20
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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 16:25
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

  LOLLOL LOL ClapClapClap
Most likely Obama himself should have left the room too...WinkWink
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 17:38
 
Guess what the link is supposed to say, and remember this is just for your amusement. ;-)


Edited by Henry Plainview - February 06 2009 at 17:41
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 17:50
^ The auto-censor censors your link too ... Error 404 - page not found Tongue LOL 
 
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.
We have to start somewhere... if technology allows it  why not lower the usage at the consumer level. After all an average electric bill runs $100 a month, we have about 60 mln households in this country, and business, big and small, would use less energy eventually too. Though I am pretty sceptical the proposal is viable
I'm not knocking it - any energy reduction is a plus and increasing the efficiency of household appliances is an easy win since the rest of the world is already doing this.
 
The average annual household consumption in the USA is over 2.5 times that of an average European household - you could cut consumption by 60% without the need for legislation, so whether it is viable or not is somewhat irrelevant.
 
What?
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 18:45
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


  LOLLOL LOL ClapClapClap
Most likely Obama himself should have left the room too...WinkWink


I knew you'd like that one.  You probably won't believe it but it came from the liberal http://www.bartcop.com site.




Edited by Slartibartfast - February 06 2009 at 19:55
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 19:02


Interesting that they dig someone up as timely as Casey Stengel to make a point. It's very timely of them.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 19:42
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ The auto-censor censors your link too ... Error 404 - page not found Tongue LOL 
 
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.
We have to start somewhere... if technology allows it  why not lower the usage at the consumer level. After all an average electric bill runs $100 a month, we have about 60 mln households in this country, and business, big and small, would use less energy eventually too. Though I am pretty sceptical the proposal is viable
I'm not knocking it - any energy reduction is a plus and increasing the efficiency of household appliances is an easy win since the rest of the world is already doing this.
 
The average annual household consumption in the USA is over 2.5 times that of an average European household - you could cut consumption by 60% without the need for legislation, so whether it is viable or not is somewhat irrelevant.
 

If it were to prove as not being viable, then why would we do it (I don't actually know if it would be viable or not. I'm just playing devil's advocateEvil Smile)?
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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 22:33
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ The auto-censor censors your link too ... Error 404 - page not found Tongue LOL 
 
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I don't think the contents of the proposal have been made public - I have little doubt they will be realistic, but they won't be enough to make a significant difference - household appliances are the tip of a very large iceberg.
We have to start somewhere... if technology allows it  why not lower the usage at the consumer level. After all an average electric bill runs $100 a month, we have about 60 mln households in this country, and business, big and small, would use less energy eventually too. Though I am pretty sceptical the proposal is viable
I'm not knocking it - any energy reduction is a plus and increasing the efficiency of household appliances is an easy win since the rest of the world is already doing this.
 
The average annual household consumption in the USA is over 2.5 times that of an average European household - you could cut consumption by 60% without the need for legislation, so whether it is viable or not is somewhat irrelevant.
 
By 60%! We'd rather die! Wink
The $100 is my guesstimate. It depends on the size of one's house, of course.  For a 2,000-2,500 sq ft. house it may be an accurate number and there are lots of houses of this size. 
 
The consumption will go down because of the recession, but in good times it's a feast, people just don't care. So having energy efficient appliances is imperative.  
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 22:40
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


  LOLLOL LOL ClapClapClap
Most likely Obama himself should have left the room too...WinkWink


I knew you'd like that one. 
How did you guess?Big smile
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 22:49
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ The auto-censor censors your link too ... Error 404 - page not found Tongue LOL 
I know, that's why I said to guess what it should be. Hopefully without incurring your wrath. ;-)


Edited by Henry Plainview - February 06 2009 at 22:52
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 22:50
Originally posted by birdwithteeth11 birdwithteeth11 wrote:

If it were to prove as not being viable, then why would we do it (I don't actually know if it would be viable or not. I'm just playing devil's advocateEvil Smile)?
I don't know that either. That's why I asked if anyone knows the details. It may be reduced to nothing as it happens quite often with good ideas. The standard set too high; government's research grants wasted; lobbying to kill it - you name it. 
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2009 at 04:03
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

By 60%! We'd rather die! Wink
The $100 is my guesstimate. It depends on the size of one's house, of course.  For a 2,000-2,500 sq ft. house it may be an accurate number and there are lots of houses of this size. 
 
The consumption will go down because of the recession, but in good times it's a feast, people just don't care. So having energy efficient appliances is imperative.  
You may jest but unfortunately that's probably how many people will react in reality. When 25% of the world's electricity is used by 4% of the world's population then a few percent saving is going to have a global effect - people have to be taught to care.
 
At an average cost of 9¢/KWh and an average annual consumption of 11,000KWh it's $80/month - but that's an average - with prices varying so dramatically across the country the variance is large, if you live in a state where the charges are 11¢/KWh...
 
Appliance efficiency on its own is not enough (a microwave oven is already 64% efficient and that's a pretty good number), but once the low-energy mind-set is established it won't be the efficiency of the appliance that makes the difference, but the efficiency of how you use it.
What?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2009 at 04:20
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by birdwithteeth11 birdwithteeth11 wrote:

If it were to prove as not being viable, then why would we do it (I don't actually know if it would be viable or not. I'm just playing devil's advocateEvil Smile)?
I don't know that either. That's why I asked if anyone knows the details. It may be reduced to nothing as it happens quite often with good ideas. The standard set too high; government's research grants wasted; lobbying to kill it - you name it. 
There's no need to play devil's advocate David, since the details are not known and every one is guessing and speculating. However, if Obama sets a random figure of 30% and all that can be achieved is 15% it is still a win - but if it is killed-off before it has a chance to do anything it is a net loss. Making appliances more efficient makes them more competitive on the global market where the Japanese and European manufacturers dominate, this not only benefits the home market, it increases exports and reduces imports.
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2009 at 05:01
In April, our government will start a program to replace all refrigerators built before 2002 in order to increase safety and save energy. They believe the number may reach 10,000,000 units.
 
These apparatus are owned primarily by poor families that bought them secondhand in many cases and consequently they'll get the money for the replacement with low interests. The aim to save energy will have the side effect of keeping manufacturers and dealers busy during these tempestuous days, saving many jobs too.
 
 
Guigo

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