Why DO women like prog? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Joined: September 12 2006
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Posted: September 20 2006 at 09:54

Interesting subject.

At the prog.fest this week end, there were more men than women. I enjoyed myself between all those guys who seems to know prog. better than me.

When I was 16 years old, all my female friends liked prog.music. While the brother of one of my friends was a disco maniac, we were sitting downstairs listening Genesis, KC , ELP or PF. This guy told us many times that we were some sort of crazy, and that disco was better music. We did not mind, and still listen our favorite music.

On the other hand, it never stopped me to go dancing, but I was dancing on Jazz bar rock instead of discotheques. I danced on rock, blues, and prog. too. This weekend , I explained to my american boy friends ( guys that I met at the prog.fest), how we danced on ITCOTKC. He did not know how we can dance on prog. music.

What I can say, is that on the seventies, we all grew up with this music, no matter if we were boys or girls. On the other hand, I can not say that I like the metal prog. music, except a little bit of Dream Theater that I discovered lately.

You can go read my review of the prog.fest on that specific thread.

Salut de Sylvie

C'est la vie

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:06

Prog.Sylvie wrote:

Interesting subject.

At the prog.fest this week end, there were more men than women. I enjoyed myself between all those guys who seems to know prog. better than me.

You can go read my review of the prog.fest on that specific thread.

Salut de Sylvie

Salut Sylvie

Actually you are right most of us were listening to all kind of music, but the punks and Disco fiends were the ones being way too trendy and busy trying to put us down. While in Toronto, the disco craze was quite important I remember that in Quebec it took gigantic proportions litteraly wiping out whole facets of Quebecois music from the airwaves. And in the Toronto French schools we had tons of new arrivals of Quebecois that had followed the economic exodus from Mtl to Tor (after the PQ arrival to power), and a good bunch of those kids only listened to disco and were hughly unpleasant in their craze. But this was only the guys being unpleasant, the girls were quite more open. I often had better contacts about music with the Quebecoise than with their brothers.

If it was not for CHOM FM, there was absolutely no prog from 78 onwards in the FM or AM airwaves in La Belle Province.

Edited by Sean Trane - September 20 2006 at 10:08

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:10

The golden age was between 1970 to 1978. After that, It was over for most part, but we still listened to our old record by the time , and some new things, like Alan Parson projects and many other things. We did not care and we still don't care of what most of the people listen to, that's their problem.

Are you going to see Roger Waters playing Pink Floyd tomorrow ? I will be there. I want to hear Dark Side of the Moon live, from the first note to the last. It must be marvelous.

C'est la vie

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:56

Prog.Sylvie wrote:

The golden age was between 1970 to 1978. After that, It was over for most part, but we still listened to our old record by the time , and some new things, like Alan Parson projects and many other things. We did not care and we still don't care of what most of the people listen to, that's their problem.

Are you going to see Roger Waters playing Pink Floyd tomorrow ? I will be there. I want to hear Dark Side of the Moon live, from the first note to the last. It must be marvelous.

If you are talking to MOI

, I'd love to make it a date, but the transatlantic flights from Brussels or Amsterdam are alml booked up.

I left Canada in 88 and only came back 4 times on holidays! How was FMPM?

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:04

Go on the thread about this topic. I made a long report on that topic ( review section). I did not know that you were living outside of Canada.

C'est la vie

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:11

Prog.Sylvie wrote:

Go on the thread about this topic. I made a long report on that topic ( review section). I did not know that you were living outside of Canada.

Does that mean you don't like me anymore?

But it is true that the line with my location: Belgium lineunder my brilliant absence of avatar is gone. Where dit go???

I loved partying in Montreal, headed there at least every second weekend (looser opening bar hours, easier access to booze stores, better dope and the women..........

). Often slept (that is when I did sleep) in Oultremont.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2006 at 11:22

Sean, I like you. I like the prog.Fest, but I don't have time to explain my views on the FMPM many times. I did it once. I have to work in between.

C'est la vie

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:25

darkshade wrote:

i dont wanna sound sexist, but look at classical music. obviously this is the biggest influence on prog. more so than jazz, psychedelia, etc. all the great composers were men, and then all the classic prog bands were all men as well. ive yet to see a musical movement where women were the majority in the creative force behind it.

although it's true, there's more women in orchestra's and symphonies these days. this may be due to men thinking it's "gay" to do that and would rather be in bands, but i doubt this, since i know people in marching band drum corps.

Actually the choices of a music student are dictated by mostly the amlount of risk you are willing to take in your career.

1- you can choose to have an employee job in an orchestra (unless you are sufficiently virtuoso and brilliant to be a star soloist) safely tucked in an "office job" and waiting for your paycheck falling at the end of the month.>> although often performing at evening time and the odd tours, the safety of the job is why women will choose it.

2- become a studio rat or songwriter for others >> this allows for a family life

3- the high-risk solo career (and usually not in classical music), but this shoots the family life if you are struggling or makes it non-existant if you are succesful (but if you are so succesful as Madonna or Dion , maternity breaks will not matter anymore) >> this choice will generally scare many women away from trying out. The sad thing is that most of those women performers do not write their own material , which hurts them in the revenue dept, since roughly 50% of rights go for the composer (music writer)and the author (lyric writer)

But to say that men would shun away from orchestras because it is "gay" is quite wrong. I know two orchestra players and this is worse than soap operas about who is shaggin who.

Usually work place where the women are the majority are the best place for men who want "action".

But at their own risks, of course.

Now where is that sewing manufacture adress again?

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Bob Greece View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:43

Sean Trane wrote:

But it is true that the line with my location: Belgium lineunder my brilliant absence of avatar is gone. Where dit go???

Where did your avatar go as well?

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:50

Bob Greece wrote:

Sean Trane wrote:

But it is true that the line with my location: Belgium line under my brilliant absence of avatar is gone. Where dit go???

Where did your avatar go as well?

never had one.

To lazy to choose one.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Raff

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 09:46

Hugues, can I ask you a question? If so many women choose a profession on the basis of how much this will allow a family life, don't you think there may be another reason than unwillingness to take risks? It's true that women bear children and men don't, but usually to have a family it takes two.... And, to this day and age, even in civilised countries like Italy women can really get discriminated at work just because of their ability to have children.

Hugues, let's face it, equal opportunities are still quite far from having been reached, even in our civilised Western world. And mine is the point of view of a woman who doesn't believe that women are better than men, or that the world would be a better place if women had more power than men.

Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 12:15

Ghost Rider wrote:

Hugues, can I ask you a question? If so many women choose a profession on the basis of how much this will allow a family life, don't you think there may be another reason than unwillingness to take risks? It's true that women bear children and men don't, but usually to have a family it takes two.... And, to this day and age, even in civilised countries like Italy women can really get discriminated at work just because of their ability to have children.

Hugues, let's face it, equal opportunities are still quite far from having been reached, even in our civilised Western world. And mine is the point of view of a woman who doesn't believe that women are better than men, or that the world would be a better place if women had more power than men.

Raf, I fully agree with your remarks also.

Generally the women prefer to play it safe, becauseof their reproductive capabilities.

But again you speak of equality which is IMHO unatainable because of the differences >> this is why the laws are taking more and more into account the notion of equivalence >> hence that weight loading reference I made earlier. If we were really equal, then we should have women carrying the same loads as men, we should have fathers excercising the same rights as the mothers do from the birth of the kids, we should have male journalists allowed in women's showers at sporting events (the opposite is true) etc... I can name hundreds of cases where women get preferential treatment, but women do not see those as advantages because they seem natural and in order of things.

Of course a woman should get the same salary as a man does, but on construction sites as labourers? And yes , if I was a boss, I'd think twice about hiring a woman in age to have a family, because I know she will be away for months on end and I need the employee to be there and do the job. Simple arythmetics!!! >> not fair? I agree, but as a boss I hire to get the job done. Did you know that women in Europe are allowed 12 days a year (actually one day per month) to not come to work without doctor certificate for PMS reasons, no questions asked, but men are just allowed one day a year, and they'd better come with a good explanation. There are hundreds of companies not hiring men in manufacturing jobs because the whole presonnel is feminine. Why are women used as cashiers in supermarkets and not unloading the trucks? In the nuclear fields, women can only take a fifth of radiation that men can!!!

To allow women to grab a more equal shares of power/descision making jobs, there are positive discrimination policies (which I support for the principle) but this is causing many problems and actually can discriminate against the best candidate, regardless of gender. Political party list must have 33% of women in their lists, but there are many women who are just used as fillers only because of the lack or real candidates and this at the cost of some male candidates that would care for the politics.

To show you how progressive I can be as a male, I am willing to recognize motherhood as a job and actually retribute it (full salary). But as all jobs, I expect good results >> no kids becoming hoods hanging out in the streets then. If not well taken care of, the salary drops to half until the next review. OK, so this revolutionary idea is still to be refined, but I think that this should get rid of a lot of problems.

unprefect world of ours, uh? only trying to build a fair world for both sides

your LL

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

WaywardSon View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 12:34

There are a lot of women in Brazil who love prog. Thinking back to the shows I saw of Rush and Roger Waters, there must have been 30 to 35% women in the audience.

There also seems to be a higher amount of women who like metal/hard rock in South America. Going to a Deep Purple or Iron Maiden show, one will see lots of women.

I know in Britain it is more male dominated . It´s hard to pinpoint what the reason is.

chessman

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 16:49

It is quite difficult to give an all-encompassing answer to this one.

Of course, it shouldn't matter what sex, age, colour or creed a person is, there is no official reason why one person would like prog and another would not.

Having said that, I have to say my wife doesn't like much prog. When I have played any with her in the room, eg: Yes or some early Genesis, she has been known to say 'what a noise!'.

I have had the same experience with other women over the years, and I have to conclude that, generally, (happily there are exceptions) the majority of women prefer something 'with a good beat to dance to - or - with a nice singalong tune - or - with nice lyrics about love and devotion'.

Again, in general, the majority of women will not care who the musicians are or how well they play, they will just want the songs to 'sound nice'.

This is not meant in any way as a sexist comment, and as I said, it is nice to see the exceptions, but the great majority of women in my age group (I am 47) will usually say 'I have always loved Mowtown, and these days I like the boy bands such as Westlife'.

I don't think there is a real reason behind it, other than maybe they have just followed their friends' tastes, or their older sisters' habits when they were younger.

Fritha

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 17:24

Hmm, I think it's at least partly a question of women prefering the music they like to be somehow related to their lives or particular situations in life. Men are happier to just view music as an objective entity, something to marvel at for its own sake (the playing, the song-structures you name it) while women tend to view it more clearly as an outlet for certain emotions (being in love, being joyful, being sad, having relationship problems...or just problems in life in general) It seems to me that the majority of women just have a more intuitive attitude to music and as a result they don't feel a need to dissect it, analyse it and write about it on message boards -you know, the fun part besides actually listening to it

Just some thoughts from a woman, who not so long ago had more or less the kind of attitude towards music as the one described above, but then saw the light and took a leap to the other side...

Of course, the initial question in this thread was: why DO women like prog? My answer would be: probably for the same reason as men do... for the purely musical aspects of it.

I was made to love magic

micky

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 19:57

hmmm great thread Raffaella... would love to add something but being neither a woman or knowing but one woman who even likes prog.... I really couldn't answer the question. LOL

We all know women who love to rock... and men who love 'simplistic' love ballads... I call them one thing.... 'special' hahahha

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tardis

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:00

Why not?

avestin

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Posted: September 21 2006 at 20:04

Ghost Rider wrote:

So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs?

I wouldn't know...

My wife has always been into Rock, classic rock and progressive rock as well. I also got her into metal and she even got accustomed to death growls...

She can't stand the Celine Dion type of music (much like me), but she does have a strange affection for disco music of the 80's

Anyway, to ask why she loves it amounts to the same thing as asking ME why I love it.

Becuase it is excellent music, which gives both of us pleasure listening to. Shallow, but that's it.

I shall ask her when we will rejoin in 2 weeks, what does she think.