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Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
Posted: August 15 2017 at 04:13
Very clichéd, but Trump talk is sooo cheap. Dump Bannon and Miller President bozo, or go down as a president with a rep worse than Nixon. Well, that will happen no matter what Trump does. Never mind.
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
Posted: August 15 2017 at 22:46
well...
so what is there really to say about today and perhaps the most notorious Presidential meltdown in this countries history... disagree... really? Find me ONE example that comes even close to that presser that left everyone (who was paying attention of course) completely stunned. Democrat AND Republican.
Am I surprised? No... am I angry? You bet your ass I am. Not at him, because this was NO surprise, but it is more fuel to the anger I feel to those that voted from Trump. Were they so ignorant to not see that he was aligned with the very element that ANY rational American who is NOT a racist or bigot should find reprehensible. Ignorance. Pure and simple among a great many Americans. Again.. this country may be broken but it isn't our government.. it is the electorate who seem to have forgotten the the right to vote.. is also a very important responsibliity. So thanks to their ignorance, stupidity, and their bigotry and racism we are we are today.
Am I scared.. in a way .. yes. Trump completely fumbled his attempt to ease the growing and very dangerous divide in this country. Saturday it was a car... tomorrow? An assault rifle? Would you be surprised? I wouldn't. The mayor of Charlottsville nailed it... this is a mere continuation of Trump's campaign.. hate hate and hate. It motivates those that supported him, and it is now radicalizing and mobilitizing those that stand against him and his (IMO of course) very un-American ideals.. such as.. supporting WHITE SUPREMACISTS.
I do fear that the level of violence is going to be worse between left and right... and Trump has no ability to be.. umm... Presidentail and unite.. only divide.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Very clichéd, but Trump talk is sooo cheap. Dump Bannon and Miller President bozo, or go down as a president with a rep worse than Nixon.Well, that will happen no matter what Trump does. Never mind.
Indeed, no one (outside his cult) believed him and today he already went back on it.
Did anyone see this press conference? This was classic Trump in full nutter mode. Went back to blaming both sides (while always specifically calling out the left, never the right), said the "violent left" that "came running in with clubs" is what started it all, as well as BLM. Made his usual "fake news" quips throughout and randomly forced in a McCain jab. Went on and on how he waited so long, (but it wasnt actually that long) because he wanted to make sure he had the facts so he could make an accurate statement, (unlike the media). Said "facts" no joke 20+ times. Yes, that's right...Trump is a big believer in waiting to make strong comments, so he can get the facts first.
.....Orwell is spinning in his grave.
BTW David Duke praised Trump's comments. Why on Earth did he even bother with the belated proper comment? I imagine this is what happened:
"President Trump you HAVE to go out there and make a comment acknowledging and denouncing the white nationalists, everyone is pissed off" "OK OK fine"
*next day*
"President Trump a couple of people on Stormfront called you a cuck"
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
Posted: August 15 2017 at 23:06
its a war David... been saying it.. but unless one is blind.. how can one not see it.
trump of course has encouraged them.. motivated them... of course they were looking for a fight. Thing is Trump has motivated the left to (finally) stand up and stop being a punching bag for the ideologues on the right. The level of hate on both sides is getting ramped on.. not being cooled off... I feel it myself to be honest.
Someone has to step up and say enough is enough.. but only Trump can do it. Today more than anything may be what goes does in history as his, and our histories, greatest failure by a President. I am pissed... do you think I am the only one? As I said.. what is a war mostly in the political arena is getting dangerously close to tipping into violence between the two sides.
Look at this... from today... people are upset...it is breaking down.... right in public. Never thought I'd see this ... but that is the mood people are feeling
Edited by micky - August 15 2017 at 23:07
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65289
Posted: August 15 2017 at 23:14
^ You're right, and it's a whole different kind of politics; not so much Left vs. Right, but Forward vs. Backward. I pity the poor folks who have aligned themselves with the radical racists, so many of them will regret it someday. Wrong side of history. One wonders about the damage Trump supporters are really doing to themselves and any hope of their European Descendants movement.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46838
Posted: August 15 2017 at 23:23
excellent point and happily corrected ... it isn't as much left v. right as much as it is forward v. backward thinking. Of course they do generally break left v. right politically in how they and we identify ourselves of course but that isn't the real issue at hand. It is hte reason for the culture war as I explained way back in the first thread.. it is a battle for the heart and soul of the country and its future course. Do we try to remain a white christian nation or embrace multiculturalism. Of course I do believe the war is already won... short of going full blown Nazi party and sending the SS (DNS) into people's homes and putting them into camps or tossing them over the border the demographic changes are what they are... as I noted... those 19 out of 20 hispanic kids I saw getting off that bus last year.. will all be voters in 10 or so years. America is not merely changing.. it HAS changed and short of going full blown Facists state there is nothing the backward thinkers can do about it to retain white power and privilege.. ie white America.. the 'Great' in Trump's Make America Great.
sh*t... just looked at the clock.... f**king Trump.. I'm blaming you for tomorrow and not having enough sleep at work hahaha.
Edited by micky - August 15 2017 at 23:25
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
What I don't get is why the 'Alt-Right' is protesting-- it's their guy in office, what is there to protest?
Technically, the removal of confederate imagery, officially they are sad, lonely losers pissed off their life sucks, (maybe daddy was mean to them or they failed to make it in the military) and instead of fixing their problems, just sit on 4chan or reddit all day long being angry.
BTW, some psychologists studied hundreds of self identified alt-righters and while this is not published or reviewed yet, came up with some not shocking results:
-They prefer white people, and policies/people/organizations/structures that support white people
-They have a strong negative view on BLM, the media, muslims, feminism
-Authoritarian and Machiavellian tendencies
-Very willing to admit to prejudices and aggressive behaviors. The latter saw large variation but even more mild mannered alt righters concerned more corruption still showed a preference for white people and against BLM
-They don't really care about the economy and overall are not really socially isolated
-A strong dehumanizing view of people and groups they dont like. Whites, Americans, Europeans, Swedes, Christians, Men are of course near the top of the "evolved" scale. Jews and gov employees in the middle. Blacks, Democrats, Arabs, Journalists, Feminists and Hillary Clinton near the bottom.
I fully believe this is accurate, given real life observations, but I will admit...the alt right does love to troll, bigger the better, so I could deff see them getting wind of this and saying "Hey lets sign up, take their money and f**k around with them by saying horrible stuff". That said, strikes me as accurate and even alt righters I knew that were just trolls (who may have not even like Trump or politics) when serious posted anti BLM/muslim/feminist things. Just wow.
Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 04:03
Trump: "What statues do we replace next? Washington was a slave owner. Jefferson was a slave owner big time. Do we replace their statues?"
My response: Yes. They were great idealists but lacked enough vision for the current American government and social requirements. No surprise there. Just replace their statues with Lincoln and JFK. (And Obama. )
I just hope that Trump doesn't die in office. Imagine seeing statues of him?
Ah yes the culture war. For the time being, it's not a war the Democrats will win. In fact, we've not been winning it for decades: Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Trump... the Dems need to have a strong economic message and/or likeable candidate or else small town and suburban America defaults to Republican. Maybe in another 20 years.
Doesn't even matter if they are terrible for the voters there, keep em distracted with race baiting, social conservatism, religion and a foreign enemy to hate. Bush was too nice...probably would've won bigger if he was meaner.
I still think economic populism with a moderate tone on the social issues is the way to go for them.
Ironically, I see a new split coming. Everyone is worried about the Mainstream vs Progressive split. Well, Sanders as well as Pelosi and Schumer all have said the Dems should be willing to embrace pro life Dems in conservative areas, much to the rage of some. There is a major push to talk big on racial issues and the likes Basically, many Dems wanna jump into the culture war.
Ironically seems to me its not as much a Mainstream/Progressive divide, now seems to be a Mainstream-Progressive/Activist divide!
Worries me. I of course am a big believer in social and racial justice and we can't ever give up the fight on that, especially with reproductive rights under increasing attack, but I do think the Dems need to ya know win lol
So, one positive about Sessions being elevated to AG (and this is about the only) was "Hey, least he's out of the Senate"
Well...the guy who finished 1st in last night's primary was Roy Moore, the twice removed chief justice who said Gay Marriage is the holocaust.
He didn't outright win the primary so will have to face a run off, but his opponent Luther Strange has been backed by Mitch and the GOP mainstream, and will naturally be associated with the much hated ex governor. I bet Moore wins (and thus the election). I cant find anything of substance on him, no policies or views, I can't find anything. Just his extremely anti gay comments and that, apparently, the first amendment only applies to Christians.
Seems he says nothing of substance, or even at all. Just pure white christian conservative pandering. And the left engages in identity politics???
Anywho, buckle up America. This crazy ride is just getting started.
Joined: June 06 2014
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 13:33
Trump has made American politics is own special brand, exacerbating existing problems we already have.
On a funny, but sad and unsurprisingly wrong, statement among Trump's more serious, egregious ones from yesterday, he apparently doesn't own the winery ("one of the largest) that he said he does in Charlottesville.
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 18:04
well it was Uday or Qusay with their name on it and even if it wasn't him.... but one can excuse him for that fake news. The kids are merely fronts for him while in office haha
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
And I as I went into in some length back in the other thread. The only way the Democrats don't win the Culture War completely is if the Republican party doesn't continue valuing short term success over long term health. It's winning (short term strategy) of playing upon fear and holding tight to the its core support of old white men, bigots, racists, and religious fundies. It works and has for decades.. but it won't for much longer. Unless they moderate and turn their back on those divisive elements and quit alienating the minorities they will drive the emerging minority-majority as completely into the Democratic camp as they did the Blacks.
The Republican Party moderating? Does anyone see that happening. The one bright side to Trump winning.. their day of reconning is pushed back further.... so they won in 20166 and get to 'enjoy' their Faustian bargain with Trump and the alt-Right but it is a long term losing game. In fact.. one reason why many in the GOP feared Trump was.. well look at yesterday
Gotta love the indignation from the GOP about Trump's embrace of the bigots and racists. Hey.. give the man credit where due. That is NO surprise... he has been remarkably consistent.. from well before the election about his lack of any empathy and ignorance to the very deep and still revelvalnt today wounds of our racist and bigotted past as a nation. At least Trump is honest about it... while the rest of the GOP establishment still courts those same knuckheads... but treat them just as they do the religious fundies.. blow smoke up their asses to get their votes.. then give them scraps.
However what was feared.. is now very likely to come to pass... the veneer of the GOP courting of the haters and dividers (to say nothing of who well they exploit those tactics politically) is likely to be completely blown off by Trump. It is his party now.. and intstead of being the so called (spits beer on monitor) Party of Lincoln.. it will be the Party of the Ohio Nazi's... damn I hate Ohio Nazi's....
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: February 01 2011
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 18:34
SteveG wrote:
Trump: "What statues do we replace next? Washington was a slave owner. Jefferson was a slave owner big time. Do we replace their statues?"
My response: Yes. They were great idealists but lacked enough vision for the current American government and social requirements. No surprise there. Just replace their statues with Lincoln and JFK. (And Obama. )
I just hope that Trump doesn't die in office. Imagine seeing statues of him?
I have different thoughts regarding the whole statue thing. For whatever their faults, men like Washington and Jefferson are the wellspring from whence we have our current freedoms, merely expanded from the original limiting factors (like women having no vote, for instance). They built the country, they didn't revolt and split the Union. That's the difference between the Confederates and the Founding Fathers. Not only did the Southern States secede from the Union because of slavery, they are directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths caused in the Civil War. That blood is on their hands, as far as I'm concerned.
All that aside, besides cemeterys and museums, places like Gettysburg are the perfect venue to offer historical context for one of our most pivotal battles in our nations history. Statues should remain there for the thousands who died, as there should be at Shiloh and Antietam. Because it is the historical perspective that matters.
Elsewhere, like in cities or towns where these statues were raised to revere rebels and traitors? No. Answer this simple question: who erected these statues, and, as most of these stand in Southern communities, did the black members of these cities and towns have a voice in their placement? If you were honest with yourselves I am sure you can see the unfairness of the situation.
I have Irish ancestors, and I can assure you if you tried to erect a statue of Cromwell in Dublin or Cork, you might not get home afterwards.
Edited by The Dark Elf - August 16 2017 at 18:34
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 18:57
^ Excellent points. I too feel somewhat torn about the statues but at the end of the day I see the importance, the fairness, of putting them elsewhere. As you allude to, black people helped build the south, have always had a strong presence there, and frankly as time goes on are increasingly uncomfortable with their communities still revering men who fought to preserve an inhumane and misguided culture. And I'd imagine quite a few honkies aren't too happy about it either.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 19:41
This southern honky thinks history belongs in a museum or a history book, not a public park hopefully used by everyone. I'm from the south and after 20 years wonderful years in California, I'm happy to be back here, but statues are more than history, they are a testimonial, endorsement or dedication. I don't think the confederate leaders deserve that honor because even back then, many southerners thought the war was wrong and a complete disaster for regular working people in the south.
Also, its sad that true devotees to Confederate history have had their beloved heroes usurped, but the nazis and KKK are using these statues as a red herring to get sympathy for their cause.
I would imagine in Germany long ago, Nazis used similar German issues to get sympathy from the confused and gullible. Maybe npjnpj can tell us what techniques the Nazis used to gain power in his country.
Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: August 16 2017 at 19:45
this west coast liberal transplanted southern honky as well as Civil War buff and amateur historian thinks this article.. hot off the presses.... says it best. Ask yourself... why were the statues there in the first place. Puts the current debate and events of the last week in context.
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The American Politics Thread
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SteveG wrote:
... it isn't as much left v. right as much as it is forward v. backward thinking. Of course they do generally break left v. right politically in how they and we identify ourselves of course but that isn't the real issue at hand. It is hte reason for the culture war as I explained way back in the first thread.. it is a battle for the heart and soul of the country and its future course. Do we try to remain a white christian nation or embrace multiculturalism. Of course I do believe the war is already won... short of going full blown Nazi party and sending the SS (DNS) into people's homes and putting them into camps or tossing them over the border the demographic changes are what they are... as I noted... those 19 out of 20 hispanic kids I saw getting off that bus last year.. will all be voters in 10 or so years. America is not merely changing.. it HAS changed and short of going full blown Facists state there is nothing the backward thinkers can do about it to retain white power and privilege.. ie white America.. the 'Great' in Trump's Make America Great. 
)
