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The Dark Elf 
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 Posted: April 04 2012 at 21:11 |
 Dayvenkirq wrote:
What is the best record as an introduction to prog-rock?
I have a clue how to answer this question: something accessible, non-embarrassing, and quintessential of the genre. It all depends on the user: either "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Red." Gee, if I had to choose, ... let it be "Dark Side of the Moon."
What do you think? |
I don't think there is a "best record". To whom are introducing prog-rock to? Your grandmother who thinks The Beatles are the devil's music? An eleven year-old girl who listens to the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon? Someone in a coma for the last 40 years who hasn't heard any? What are we talking about here?
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 29415
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Posted: April 05 2012 at 01:48 |
Desert_Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
I look forward to your future posts. You very eloquently put Moshkito in his place there whereas I would just have been rude tbh |
Thanks a lot for the eloquence compliment :) It wasn't my intention to put somebody in his place, I was just not sure if I understood what Moshkito said, and if I did, I disagree.
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I've had a few run ins with Moshkito so I can give you the benefit of my experience on this. He doesn't like anything being labelled even though we are on a Prog website and not the 'freedom to all musical expression' website.Prog is a definable and identifiable genre but Moshkito will tell you otherwise. He will also take the opportunity to talk down to you if you don't agree. On the plus side he does have a fantastic knowledge of music and often posts interesting stuff. Basically he's pretty harmless if sometimes annoying 
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moshkito
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Posted: April 05 2012 at 09:40 |
The only sad thing in all this, is that you all take the socialist part so seriously ... you have to agree with each other in order to express yourself!
You really think, that all the "progressive" music is about that? Do you have a conceptual understanding of what it really means, other than just a "hit" or another "song"? I don't believe so!
You can call me a goon (that's an honor!) or an idiot (how sweet to be an idiot!), and anything else you like. But one thing I'm not lacking is ... individuality, and personality ... because those are the two things required and needed to get some attention out there in the world of the arts.
Go ahead .. be my guest ... do what everyone else already does ... and hope to get noticed! Good luck! Then come over here and call me something else when you only had 4 streams running and several friends never made it, or cared to bother! They already have the CD's and heard it hundred times! How "prog" that is!
Edited by moshkito - April 05 2012 at 09:48
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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dennismoore
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Posted: April 05 2012 at 14:09 |
richardh wrote:
Thanks (I think  )
For the benefit of people who don't hang on every word I type (misguided fools that they be  ) I just said Chester Thompson was 'fine' on the Seconds Out version of DOAV and he is.Collins does give the toms a good battering on the studio version and it also seems slower and more stately..so its just different. I expect they upped the tempo on the live version so it just can't be played the same way. Funnily enough this also happened when ELP played Tarkus live  |
Well it was the way you said Chester plays just "fine" in your original post. It kinda came off like a youngster standing
atop the stairs with their fists folded against their sides, elbows out, defiantly exclaiming "fine" send me to bed without
any desert, "fine" see if I care! (At least that is how it came across to me and my court appointed therapist. )
So I thought it needed further discussion, which by the way, sure took you a long enough time to find that continuing discussion, here in this very thread!
And for the jokers who said Are You Ready Eddie? was a track that killed an otherwise great record, I say again:
It was a last minute jam/composition when the band was told(after recording was completed) that the album was a few minutes short and they needed one more song. Since ELP had no more songs written, they did a quickie improv and that was put at the end of Tarkus. And yeah, Are You Ready Eddie? has some absolutely kick-ass piano in it. 
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dennismoore
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Posted: April 05 2012 at 14:33 |
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
richardh wrote:
Tarkus tells you everything about prog. Classic symph prog with a very easy to understand title track. |
But then you have to skip Bitches Crystal, The Only Way, Jeremy Bender, Are You Ready Eddy...everything but the title track and Infinite Space. |
Oh dear, oh dear and Holy Bat Crap, Batman!
I came across this Tarkus Side II bashing in another thread, and I just can't keep silent on this atrocity any longer..
For the record:
Bitches Crystal is an amazing prog-hard rocker. Lake's powerful singing yet forcefull screaming may have singlehandedly invented a whole genre of harder rock, a more quintessential song, you will not find.
(Oh and let's not forget the absolute wicked screaming moog lines in that tune.)
The Only Way: it may turn off some Bible thumpers, but it is keyboard masterfulness, and since ELP is a KEYBOARD driven band, lots of keys and a genuine pipe organ shouldn't be so hard to handle.
Jeremy Bender: fun, yet very difficult to play ragtime ditty(done quite originally, mind you) whose words have left us wondering for decades, what was Jeremy Bender really all about??? I personally think it was written about Richard M. Nixon.
Are You Ready Eddy? Writen & recorded on the fly since the band ran out of compositions yet needed more songs for the record length, but still has some brilliant hard rock piano improv. despite being a last second tune 
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Horizons
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Posted: April 05 2012 at 14:42 |
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Still sucks.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Dayvenkirq
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Joined: May 25 2011
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 14:42 |
OK, how about this: my mother keeps listening to this guy Phillip Phillips from the American Idol, and she keeps listening to him out loud, and she even sent me an e-mail with a link to his performance. That's just being obtrusive.
BTW, she enjoys Whitney Houston and, yeah, those freaking songs done by Phillip Phillips. She doesn't seem to care much for The Beatles. She heard Yes' "Your Move/I've Seen All Good People" several times and wasn't really impressed. She was very annoyed with Argent's "Hold Your Head Up". I played on YouTube that piano bit Tony Banks played during an interview that back in the day became the theme for the piano and flute from "Firth of Fifth", and she is all like, phlegmatically: "That's easy to play". Nor was she impressed with Banks' keyboard work in the intro of "The Lamb" (the title track): "Oh, yeah, that's tough to play". She also doesn't seem to care much for that famous memorable guitar line from SOYCD where the drums start.
Oh, and yeah, I played Popol Vuh's "Ah!" off of "Hosianna Mantra" and PF's "A Saucerful of Secrets" (the title track), and she commented: "Madman's music".
Please, somebody help me out to get her freaking mind off of the freaking Phillip Phillips. It's becoming a real problem now.
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nima1024
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 14:49 |
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I would suggest to start with some not-very-complex Symphonic Prog tracks, I would albums, Camel & Mirage, Foxtrot or Selling England, The Wall and then we can go for Fragile, maybe.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 15:06 |
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^ Any tracks in particular? ... since I have a lot to choose from. I don't know if "The Wall" is something she will understand musically. There are lots of heavy tracks on it.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 29 2012 at 15:07
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nima1024
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 15:10 |
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Yes, some tracks are really very good for start, for example.
- I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)
- Comfortably Numb
- Slow Yourself Down
- Never Let Go
- Owner of a Lonely Heart
- From the Beginning or Lucky Man
If she could handle that, you can go for,
- Dancing With the Moonlit Knight
- Can-Utility and the Coastliners
- Roundabout
- Trilogy (by ELP)
- Lady Fantasy (This is dangerous, as it's much more complex than others. :D)
There are also very good songs to start. ;)
Edited by nima1024 - May 29 2012 at 15:12
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 15:20 |
^ Thank you . I hope those aren't just tracks that you like, but tracks that can potentially remedy my problem. Thanks so much.
Anyone else?
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smartpatrol
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 15:34 |
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I'd just give someone Close to the Edge and tell them to listen to it and do nothing else. Just through them right into prog.
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nima1024
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 15:42 |
smartpatrol wrote:
I'd just give someone Close to the Edge and tell them to listen to it and do nothing else. Just through them right into prog. |
I also thought at it first, but the thing is that it's a long album and it might be hard for them to hold themselves and listen to the 18-mins masterpiece. We need shorter tracks at first introduction. ;)
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 16:11 |
Oh, how about this: something that's NOT ELECTRIC-guitar driven, something abundant with melody, something that has meaningful (profound, but not in a cheesy or commonsensical way) lyrics and doesn't demonstrate instrumental prowess so much.
I don't want to convert her (I hate the word in this context, 'cause we are not religious fanatics), I just want her to understand the genre to at least a slight extent.
Now that I think about it, nima1024's recommendations fit the bill.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 29 2012 at 16:14
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Gerinski
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 16:11 |
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This may sound cheesy, but for introducing prog to a pop-rock listener in a soft way I think that Moon Safari's Blomljud can be an effective album. It's actually melodic pop-rock with good prog structure and arrangements.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 16:12 |
^  . Will check it out.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 16:16 |
Also, it has to be something that's not monotonous.
Edit: I forgot to mention that she hated "Inner Mounting Flame" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. ??? She hated the fast stuff and the loud guitar.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 29 2012 at 16:18
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gerdtheater
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Points: 298
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 23:19 |
I will start with EL&P Tarkus Rush's 2112 or Moving Pictures Dream Theater's Images and Words Yes Tales from Topographic Oceans Genesis The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
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Playing a three-hour Rush show is like running a marathon while solving equations.
Neil Peart
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 23:37 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Also, it has to be something that's not monotonous.
Edit: I forgot to mention that she hated "Inner Mounting Flame" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. ??? She hated the fast stuff and the loud guitar.
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Of course she did, you should've played Birds of Fire, I would never play IMF to a Maha virgin, waaaaay too out there. She was right to hate it.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: May 30 2012 at 01:25 |
gerdtheater wrote:
I will start with EL&P Tarkus Rush's 2112 or Moving Pictures Dream Theater's Images and Words Yes Tales from Topographic Oceans Genesis The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway |
Sorry, I don't think much of this will work. Long stuff and electric-guitar-driven songs, as I mentioned far up above, won't do.
Good call on "The Lamb", though. I'm actually considering playing her "The Lamia" or "In the Rapids" (no, the latter probably won't impress her) or something like that, or maybe some of the short stuff off of "Tarkus" (the album).
Atavachron wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Also, it has to be something that's not monotonous.
Edit: I forgot to mention that she hated "Inner Mounting Flame" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. ??? She hated the fast stuff and the loud guitar. |
Of course she did, you should've played Birds of Fire, I would never play IMF to a Maha virgin, waaaaay too out there. She was right to hate it.
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I will consider that ... although I hate it when artists/bands make grotesque twins.
No, wait ... she is not into jazz, let alone jazz-rock.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 30 2012 at 01:29
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What is the best record as an intro to prog?
