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Topic ClosedClean Vocals or Death Growl? (Modern Prog)

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Anthony H. View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 16:58
I like clean singing about a thousand times more. I don't dislike harsh vocals, but they really don't connect with me very well. There are certain exceptions, however.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 17:07
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Jake Kobrin Jake Kobrin wrote:

I don't think there's anyone that actually prefers one or the other... They each serve their purpose. 
For example, Yes would sound AWFUL with growling, but Jon Anderson's vocals would probably sound out of place in Morbid Angel... 


O yes, I'm pretty sure there are lot's of people (me included) who not only prefer clean vocals, but even can't stand growling.


Yep, exactly this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 17:31
There's a song by The Byrds called Turn,Turn,Turn in the line says"There's a reason of everything purpose under heaven" then it goes "A Time"
 
Just my opinion:The Time more than ever is to be Clean
 
Like they were back in the 60's
 
We're in "The Battle for Middle Earth"
 
One of the Hugest reasons why i love Prog is it's politicalness,what i mean is Concept Albums.
 
The Record Companies which are a extension of Wall Street and The owner of Wall Street who is The Rothschild Family,want to take back the control of the music thru shows like American Idol,America's got talent,thru Censorship,Copyright laws and Monpolizing the Internet
So to get back to anything that the Record Companies approve of folks get to listen,while if the Recording Industry doesn't approve of won't see the light of day
 
Which means this is a battle for also Preservation of the finest music,independance of the artists and musicians.
 
Why Clean now,because to clearly hit folks upside the head,get back to THE REAL BLUES
 
Except for a few artists(Robert Wyatt included in the few),musicians have lost THE BLUES.
 
I'd love for artists to touch on
 
*Bank of England and Wall Street robbing the Greek,Iceland and American People thru Speculation,Derivatives,Credit-Default Swaps,Sub-prime loans(If you want a clue read the Matt Taibbi articles in Rolling Stone and his blog at the Rolling Stone website,even get back issues with his articles on Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street)
Btw that's what Gong's 2032 album is about.
 
* why we're in war?It's not for Patriotism but to fill Wall Streets pockets and for land and oil for Israel.
And
Reason why i'm saying this is because your,your mom,dad,cousin etc.Taxpayer dollars flipping the bill for these wars.
So Aparteid Israel can murder and butcher innocent Gazians and Palestinians wholesale because their not the Chosen People of the Talmud(Hey Metalheads you wanted hardcore i just told the truth)
(Also btw Robert Wyatt's "For Ghosts within" is about this,also check the saxophone player's website www.gilad.co.uk)
 
*Btw Americans,did you know that the American Soldier is over in Afghanistan for the worlds Opium because 92% of the world's Opium is in Afghanistan
and
In early 2000's The Taliban threw out the Opium Drugs Lords and The Drug Lords came to the US Government wanting to send the troops to Afghanistan to get back the Opium fields for the Drug Lords.
 
*Btw also the American Soldiers can been Thrill-killing(Which open-fire on) innocent and Unarmed Women and Children over in Afghanistan,Iraqi.
 
Ahh folks do yourself a favour read War is a Rackett by USMC Smedley Darlington Butler.
 
The book will make Crystal Clear why wars are fought.
 
We need to get back to the garden,back to the 60's where folks and musicians took a stand.
 
Hey
 
Robert Wyatt's For ghosts within and Gong's 2032 is a start.
 
People need a sledgehammer tooken to them or a boot up their rear because they need to be woken up.
 
Clear,Crystal Clear is the perffered technique right now!!!
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 17:39
Now that I have been face palmed and flamed with my last comment, may I continue? OK I will.
 
 
I just feel when you listen to an album, especially progressive, you expect a certain type of music, usually complex, multi instrumental perhaps, with a variation of styles and a certain atmosphere is generated. When those death metal grow vocals come on in short spurts, it works OK to bring a darkness to an atmosphere, and at times admittedly it can get too dark for my tastes but I can understand it's use. I detest evil lyrics and evil sounding vocalists; obviously black metal bands want to sound evil and dark and for that reason they shriek, growl and vomit their way through every song, such as Dark Throne, Emperor, Cradle of Filth, and I used to listen to Morbid Angel, Nalpalm Death and Exodus in my metal years. I still like some of Napalm Death's old stuff such as Suffer the Children and Cenotaph, great for a change of pace. Overall though, I have grown out of that now into more serious adult music; I believe the death metal scene is really for a teenage or pre 30s target audience, though there are always exceptions, and it is not virtuoso or complex, I have played and sung Cenotaph myself, and it is not difficult. A lot of people can growl a song, but try singing like Russell Alan or Neal Morse or Jon Anderson... very difficult.   
 
The grindcore bands of course have to growl or they would sound stupid, but once agin that is fine for them if thats what floats your boat, indulge in Canibal Corpse, Jim Carrey's favourite band, and hear about having your entrails split, your body rots, you are repeatedly smashed to a pulp with hammers... the growling is so intense and inaudible they could be singing "my dog runs across the road and licks my neighbour's cat"... I read the lyrics to Hammer Smashed Face and the song was still impossible to follow. Is that talent to sing like that? Lyrics are so important to me and if you cannot understand them, why have lyrics? What is their purpose?   
 
When growling vocals work it is when they are used in a certain context , not just growling non stop, that is really boring and irritating. They work when used for a purpose such as Devin Townsend albums (Ziltoid), Dream Theater (Black Clouds...) Haken (Aquarius) and Ayreon (Human Equation day 12). In these albums contexts the growling enhances the mood and makes sense even. I still do not prefer it but I can appreciate the effect that this has and it belongs there. However if there is a constatnt barrage of death vocals on every song it loses its impact for me and becomes very dull and unpleasant. This is why I mention Opeth. They are incredible musicians and I love Still Life, and Damnation especially. Damnation is a beautifully crafted melancholy Gothic work that has some of the best Opeth, influenced from Porcupine Tree admittedly but is great to hear very quiet vocals and virtuoso guitar riffing, not just a bunch of angry growls. In My Time Of Need is my favourite track on the album that features a melody that really captivates me and it haunts me, beautiful beyond anything on their other albums. When they use clean vocals and growling balanced out it is Ok with me, such as on Still Life, but when it is one incessant GREEEEEAAAAAAAOOOOOOORRRRRRRR - I mean, what good is that and especialy as Akerfeldt is such a damn fine singer on clean vocals, as good as i have heard. I was really moved by his work on Damnation and then was so appalled at Deliverance which sounded like he was possessed by demons he growled so much. I know it is only a style of music but it sounds so morbid and evil. OK, just leave the growling to Black Metal and grindcore type bands, they can have it and I wont go near that music again... already indulged in that realm 25 years ago, and then I discovered real music - PROG4EVER.  
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 17:45
wtf incited provoked that exactly? Stern Smile

Edited by Dean - November 25 2010 at 17:55
What?
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Mushroom Sword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:00
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

So growling is now a language? I'll check Wikipedia...

LOL
 

Deans point was not about languages but understanding lyrics........as you well know.

Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

So Prog in languages you cannot understand are off your play-list then? (Italian, French, German, Greek, Latin, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish, Czech, Russian, Japanese, Dutch... Kobaļan).


They are for me...

That's a bit sad.


Well, TBH I've never ventured outside of english lyrics. I haven't heard any other language in prog. I'm sure it sounds amazing but i haven't heard it. So my above post isn't really valid... I'm sorry. I'll go cry in the corner.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:04
Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

So growling is now a language? I'll check Wikipedia...

LOL
 

Deans point was not about languages but understanding lyrics........as you well know.

Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

So Prog in languages you cannot understand are off your play-list then? (Italian, French, German, Greek, Latin, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish, Czech, Russian, Japanese, Dutch... Kobaļan).


They are for me...

That's a bit sad.


Well, TBH I've never ventured outside of english lyrics. I haven't heard any other language in prog. I'm sure it sounds amazing but i haven't heard it. So my above post isn't really valid... I'm sorry. I'll go cry in the corner.

Sometimes for some people the language barrier can be a problem. If it doesn't bother you though there is amazing music out there not sung in English.

When I was young i don't think i would have bothered with non English music.
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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:08
old people.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:18
You weren't flamed for your last post, you posted a comment and people disagreed.
 
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

I just feel when you listen to an album, especially progressive, you expect a certain type of music, usually complex, multi instrumental perhaps, with a variation of styles and a certain atmosphere is generated.

So you expect and want prog to be samey and predictable?
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:


When those death metal grow vocals come on in short spurts, it works OK to bring a darkness to an atmosphere, and at times admittedly it can get too dark for my tastes but I can understand it's use. I detest evil lyrics and evil sounding vocalists; obviously black metal bands want to sound evil and dark and for that reason they shriek, growl and vomit their way through every song, such as Dark Throne, Emperor, Cradle of Filth, and I used to listen to Morbid Angel, Nalpalm Death and Exodus in my metal years. I still like some of Napalm Death's old stuff such as Suffer the Children and Cenotaph, great for a change of pace. Overall though, I have grown out of that now into more serious adult music; I believe the death metal scene is really for a teenage or pre 30s target audience, though there are always exceptions, and it is not virtuoso or complex, I have played and sung Cenotaph myself, and it is not difficult. A lot of people can growl a song, but try singing like Russell Alan or Neal Morse or Jon Anderson... very difficult.  

Death metal is quite often incredibly complex, that's like saying prog isn't complex because Tangerine Dream aren't. It's unfair to judge a genre on one artist, let alone one characteristic which you don't enjoy.
Also, I personally believe prog is for old people who like to listen to men singing about elves with their high womanly voices.

 
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

The grindcore bands of course have to growl or they would sound stupid, but once agin that is fine for them if thats what floats your boat, indulge in Canibal Corpse, Jim Carrey's favourite band, and hear about having your entrails split, your body rots, you are repeatedly smashed to a pulp with hammers... the growling is so intense and inaudible they could be singing "my dog runs across the road and licks my neighbour's cat"... I read the lyrics to Hammer Smashed Face and the song was still impossible to follow. Is that talent to sing like that? Lyrics are so important to me and if you cannot understand them, why have lyrics? What is their purpose?  

And there are plenty of prog lyrics which I don't like, but this is about VOCALS, not lyrical content. maudlin of the Well have some of the most poetic lyrics I've ever heard and they just so happened to be growled. Don't generalize.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:21
It is perfectly ok to not like something especially when you explain your reasons why in a respectful manner...rather than just it sucks, it stinks, hate it with no reasons why.
 
I enjoy a lot of non-english music and I understand spanish, some portuguese and italian....but not growling.
 
But I don't think I would like growling in French, German, Greek, Latin, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish, Czech, Russian, Japanese, Dutch... Kobaļan.
 
Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:36
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

 OK, just leave the growling to Black Metal and grindcore type bands, they can have it and I wont go near that music again... already indulged in that realm 25 years ago, and then I discovered real music - PROG4EVER.  
lol! I hate growling too, I find it silly when it's growling lyrics, although free form vocal hatred is ok, but this post is ridiculous. 

One barrier for foreign language prog is import prices, the only RPI album I have is Area's Nazi Attack because it wasn't expensive, but I don't want to pay $20 for an album.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:36
joerly what are you talking about, TD is very complex
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:39
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

joerly what are you talking about, TD is very complex

I was saying it's unfair to judge the complexity of music on the way that it immediately sounds, as someone who doesn't an album like Phaedra could say it's simply echoes and random noises.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 19:41
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:


One barrier for foreign language prog is import prices, the only RPI album I have is Area's Nazi Attack because it wasn't expensive, but I don't want to pay $20 for an album.


I got the remaster of NIN's Pretty Hate Machine at Best Buy yesterday for $7.99. I saw the price and though, "lol ok, for that price...sure."

Prog really can't compete with Trent Reznor either giving albums away literally, or having awesome stuff being dirt cheap.


Edited by stonebeard - November 25 2010 at 19:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 20:00
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

 OK, just leave the growling to Black Metal and grindcore type bands, they can have it and I wont go near that music again... already indulged in that realm 25 years ago, and then I discovered real music - PROG4EVER.  
lol! I hate growling too, I find it silly when it's growling lyrics, although free form vocal hatred is ok, but this post is ridiculous. 

One barrier for foreign language prog is import prices, the only RPI album I have is Area's Nazi Attack because it wasn't expensive, but I don't want to pay $20 for an album.
 
Yea this thread got on a side bar......first the OP question was valid. Clean Vocals or Death Growl? Then it turned into...'.what you don't like music from non-english speaking regions?'
 
Anyhow I don't like Death Growl as the OP was asking.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 22:41
Like several of the posters above, I like both clean vocals and growls in their appropriate contexts. The point has been made often enough that I probably don't need to make it again here except in passing. One style that I have recently come to appreciate is the beauty-and-the-beast approach, as with Epica and After Forever. I think the death growl works really well with a beautiful, powerful, and highly trained female voice to balance it out, thus providing a range that neither could attain individually. There is a lot of power, emotionally and artistically speaking, in that combination if it is done well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 22:59
^ I do like both Epica and After Forever, but would like them even better if they didn't growl. As a matter of fact, I choose the songs I like from those without growling for my repeated listenings.

Now, some weird thing... I really dislike growing, but for some reason I love "Careful with that axe, Eugene" by Pink Floyd.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 23:13
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ I do like both Epica and After Forever, but would like them even better if they didn't growl. As a matter of fact, I choose the songs I like from those without growling for my repeated listenings.

Now, some weird thing... I really dislike growing, but for some reason I love "Careful with that axe, Eugene" by Pink Floyd.

That's screaming. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2010 at 23:15
If I can't get a clean death growl then I'm going to stay away. 
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2010 at 01:28
I hate growling the vast majority of the time. Although in some instances, growling feels totally appropriate.

In my opinion, Opeth is one of the very best bands of today.
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