Most Pretentious Moments In Prog

Gerinski wrote: richardh wrote: ^ 'Pretentiousness' is bad if the band is overstretching themselves. Lamb has some wonderfull songs but why exactly does it need so much filler to make it a double? Possibly for innocent reasons just to provide enough material for a grand theatrical experience which would be fair enough. But isn't there also an element of self aggrandisement..oh look at us we can do a double album with obscure ideas and look intellectually superior as a result..? Thats pretentious! I think Genesis were among the least pretentious of all the big ones, and I would describe The Lamb as "ambitious" rather than "pretentious". No fillers for my taste, it's perfectly OK.

Edited by richardh - June 09 2010 at 00:56

richardh wrote: Thats not to say that I don't appreciate Genesis with Gabriel but I get the feeling that they were just too clever for their own good and Lamb represents a tipping point where Genesis and prog in general was in distinct danger of disappearing up its own anus (although as I've said it does contain many wonderfull moments).

What does? The anus? And many more to come?

Seriously not all prog is ambitious, Many bands who play in a symphonuc rock style nowm who were not innovative  (e.g. Satarcastle? to Wobbler) are not breaking new ground but sounding ever so retro. It may work well in introducing new audiences to the music so it's not necessarily a bad thing. But then originality is a difficult beast so I don't want to negatively critise, just make an observation about prog rock and ambition.

cheers

What I love is that art rock music can both be a joke and be serious.  It's not so set in its ways as is pop music, or even Jazz (although I suppose some Jazz can be playful).

Thank the Gods for spectacle (and spec-a-tacles) and ambition and indulgence.  Sometimes a band wants to make a double album because they want to stretch out and have a bit of fun and create something that "breathes" a little.

You call it "filler", I call it a rare opportunity to see someone's more "raw" creative ideas.

Single albums sometimes are so manicured it's hard to feel the outer edges of possibility.

Yay for the pretentious moments in progressive rock!

Adams Bolero wrote: Pretentiousness doesn't mean bad. The fact that TFTO is based on the works of Paramahansa Yogananda is one of the reasons I love prog; it is a genre of music that is unafraid to experiment and try new things even if it they risk ridicule for doing it.

The single moment I hate most in all of prog is when Geddy Lee blurts out in his corny "Angelic" drone: ...And the meek shall inherit the earth.

Gosh, it's so self important and cheesy! Oh, and boy is it dumb! I mean, Beefheart could sleep-talk more engaging lyrics and content. It's not even a real Anthem inspiration! Peart butchers the ideology of the text. That, and he turns it into this corny space fantasy pack of overlong sewer....

Ahem, boy, I sure do like Rush a good deal!

Alitare wrote: The single moment I hate most in all of prog is when Geddy Lee blurts out in his corny "Angelic" drone: ...And the meek shall inherit the earth. Gosh, it's so self important and cheesy! Oh, and boy is it dumb! I mean, Beefheart could sleep-talk more engaging lyrics and content. It's not even a real Anthem inspiration! Peart butchers the ideology of the text. That, and he turns it into this corny space fantasy pack of overlong sewer.... Ahem, boy, I sure do like Rush a good deal!

The T wrote: Actually, Kayo Dot's DAWCT. They are so pretentious they really think 14 minutes of unchanged repetition is great music...

There is a point here. I actually think Toby Driver is todays best composer, but he does have his incredibly pretentious moments, specially in that album... but I love his work!

ELP had the ambition to translate existing classical music in a cross between 20th Century classical and rock. In fact they were probably the least rock (though highly energetic) prog band out there.

They had humour (for which they are castigated, had they not they would be vilified even more.) They had great ability and progressed from calssical arrangements to things suck as KE ( a monument piece. Afterward things tended to tail off as they lost momentum. IMHO Lake's ballads on Works are lame at best embarrassing at worst. The Concerto is fine, the ELPieces are excellent. It suffers from a slight Ummagumma problem in that the collective arrnagements and creative input arte lackiung where they are needed. Sahme as palmer's side is not bad, just needed some tunes. Works 2 is actually a little better but the end is in sight.

ELP were wildly ambitious, successful for the most part and took chances with a huge abundance of talent. This does not mean someone has to like / dislike anything.

Like Quentin TRrantino remarked in a DVD interview; he could make the greatest slapstick movie ever but if you don't like slapstick you ain't gonna like it no matter how good it is. Just as well, as I can't stand slapstick.

Now for pretentious... which means to me ambition (fine), unconvincing (uh oh), released, (oh lord), still artist approved (you  gotta be crazy..)... The Nice, lead vocal in Dawn. Sorry kids but the music, while great in a Careful With That Axe Eugene suspenseful kind of way (so far so good,) is let down by this whispered campy overly dramatic vocal that makes me want it deleted and reissued as an instrumental. Even though he wasn't the greatest vocalist out there, this is really the only Lee Jackson vocal I think was misjudged (with The Nice), not a bad average. Plus I hate sl*gging artists off, they put themselves on the line and courage has to be respected.

Mind you I still can't get round the Eloy vocals... I am so glad that many bands playing art rock now are happy as instrumental acts (NeBeLNeST, Djam Karet) as not all can provide convincing vocals (Riverside, P Tree.)

I did once hear a rumour that Jon Anderson wanted to writre/ produce a hip hop opera. I dunno what happened to this (suitably applied otherwise absent medication?) but the very idea of this has me gasping for negative superlatives. In between fits of laughter of course. Would, um, this have been pretentious, given the criteria above?

Well you don't have to shout about it. 

Hi,