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Catcher10 
Forum Senior Member 
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17846 |
 Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:29 |
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SergiUriah
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009 Location: I don´t know Status: Offline Points: 453 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 21:42 |
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I hope those words weren´t dedicated to me.
 I love DT, but be real, please.
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Raff
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 05:58 |
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You know, there is a simple fact of life - the further back in time you are, the more you're likely to become a legend. This is not only true in the world of prog, but for the arts in general, including literature. So, I am not surprised people consider the classic bands of the Seventies as legends, while DT still haven't reached that status in the eyes of many. In my opinion, there are many more reason than just this one, but it may very well be that DT will manage to stand the test of time, and in 2030 be hailed in the same way as Yes or Genesis are nowadays.
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 08:10 |
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Well... I don't know guys but... did Genesis were a leyend during the 80's? of course not... especially when they were publishing their pop material... they have to stay a litle bit more to be consider a total legend... so, that's what happen with DT right now and in this site... Raff is right... of course DT is not in the level of Pink Floyd BUT PF is no more... so, there's no rules about how many years you have to be there... is just that your influence will remain evident on the genre... and since 10 or 15 years ago, DT label is all there... we have to wait a little more but the most probable is that they will be more famous when they stop playing... that's a common thing to happen... we miss them more when they are gone...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 08:58 |
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I believe your comparison is absurd and even offensive, most of our members are not even for Russia, and would be stupid to even say that most Russians are part of the Mafia.
But let's go to the backup: I say that A GOOD NUMBER of Progheads here don't consider DT Prog:
Read:
As you see, I always back up what I say. I'm not sure if they are Prog or not, but give them the benefit of the doubt, well at least I admit Ruddess and Portnoy have also played in Prog bands (don't know about Myung and Petrucci and don't care about La'Brie). Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 09:17 |
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2081 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 09:32 |
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Ivan
Firstly you state: I say that A GOOD NUMBER of Progheads here don't consider DT Prog:
In the thread for point 1: 98% of pollers consider DT prog.
In the thread for point 2, I fail to see where anyone (let alone a good percentage) say they are not Prog. Maybe Certif1ed but I think he was just having a laugh.
 They may not have been the best threads to choose to back up what you say.
oh and btw they are MOST definitely prog IMO.
If not, I may as well leave this forum and site now, together with all the other metalheads and genuine people with open minds
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:01 |
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This pises me, when people use the word "open minded" to describe other people who agree with them, prove how limited is their perspective........In other words or you accept what I believe or you are a close minded.
 .
I'm not sure if DT is Prog, but as I say, I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if people believe they are not Prog...Well, they are entitleds to their opinion even if we don't share it, but the kit is that you don't have the ruight to call them close minded because they have adifferent perception of reality than you. Learn to accept what others believe as they accept your position.
Plus you are making the point of those ho don't believe DT is Prog...You say you will leave with all the other metalheads if some people believe DT is not Prog.
 Iván
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:08 |
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I thinki we are discussing two different things...
first, DT is prog... just see how is called their special tour "Progressive Nation" in which they pick other prog bands to play with them... it was easier for them to do a "Metal Nation"? the fact that in this site there are a few or a lot of people doubting of their progressivenessless is really out of the discussion... I don't think Radiohead is prog but is already in this site and I will stay with that...
second, the impact of the band in the prog world is already there, with the thousand of prog metal bands that are a complete sub genre in this site besides of all the contributions of each member of DT have bring out each time... so... I think you are starting to discussing something that is not matter of this thread...
They are legends Ivan, wether you like it or not...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:10 |
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Not right Progmetalhead
1% considers them Prog (exclusively)
1% Consuiders thjem Metal exclusively
40.91% Considers them PROG with Metal elements
54.55% Considers them METAL with Prog elements
Being Metal MAINLY with Prog elements doesn't mean the are Prog, many 70's POP, Rock and whatever bands have Prog elements, but are not here.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:18 |
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No, it isn't...If a representative number of fans of Progressive Rock doesn't even consider them Prog, they can hardly be a legend of Prog, because people is not certain about their identity.
Gabriel Genesis is a Prog Legend, Hackett & Collins Genesis is a Prog legend, The trio is hardly a Prog legend, because despite many people believe ATTW3 and Duke are Prog, many other people (Me included) believe Genesis became POP after W&W.
Many bands and artists had imnpact in Prog world, like Hendrix, The Beaytles and Miles Davis, the are here, but hardly considered Prog legends, They may be Rock, Pop or Jazz legends but never Progressive Rock legends, and I'm sure at least Beatles and Davis had a bigger impact in Prog than DT.
[/QUOTE] They are legends Ivan, wether you like it or not... [/QUOTE]
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 10:21 |
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2081 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:21 |
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You've obviously had a bad day Ivan
Lets just agree to disagree
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 10:25 |
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Iván [/QUOTE]
basically yes... I was wondering with myself and get to that conclussion... I don't believe in democracy so... my opinion should be the one that counts...
I don't get your argumentation about Genesis... I mean, I don't understand it... there can be a prog legend that had 10 years of not been prog...? in that case, Genesis is not a legend because was mainly pop during the 80's... right...?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:56 |
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Sorry, duplicate post
Iván. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 16 2010 at 11:58 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:57 |
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I respect your opibnion, but don't share it, I believe that the status of Prog Legend needs almost unanimous support, and I'm sure DT doesn't have it.
Of course I'm trying to give reasons why I don't agree.
I see it different, I see Genesis at least as 2 different bands that share the name for economic reasons.
Until Hackett left they are a Prog legend
From there on, they were a POP legend.
Iván.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:05 |
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And for that we respect your opinion Ivan, but for many post Hackett albums Genesis were still very much prog to certain members of the forum here.
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:08 |
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That's my problem... for you it's a different band.. but for legacy meaning, Genesis is the prog and pop one... so... I seriously doubt they can recieve the united support... so...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:08 |
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^Thank you Ivan. You've just made it clear that you don't want metal in your site. Of course, if you say DT is not prog-metal, then we pretty much can eliminate a whole subgenre. As I assume that if you had heard some extreme/technical metal you would say the same, probably we might as well do what I've always though was the sanest thing to do: Partition the site.
One thing is to say DT are not legends... I agree (time hasn't passed yet). But to deny their importance in prog.. in prtogressive metall... that almost reeks of ignorance.
Damn there was a reason I only came to this forum for non-musical discussions nowadays... It's clear people here don't want us in this website.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:09 |
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Dream Theater (DT) may not be my cup of T, but I consider the band to be a Progressive Metal legend (legend in the sense of the OP), Magma a Zeuhl legend, Miles Davis a Fusion and jazz legend, Soft Machine a Canterbury Scene legend, Henry Cow a RIO legend etc. ELP is also not really my cup of tea these days, but a legend of Progressive Rock -- certainly. I do think that DT is Prog, and I haven't noted that questioned in the past, though I have seen questions raised about how truly progressive the band is. EDIT: Actually, I have seen it questioned whether Progressive Metal is truly Prog, but I don't make the distinction some do between metal and rock (I look at metal as subset of rock music -- or hard rock music).
Now the fabled Stin Kee is a different kind of legend (who never really received legendary status as his faux exploits are so unknown to all but this writer, so unlike the legendary King Arthur who may have existed in some form or may not have existed but gained mythical status). Stin Kee -- Progressive Flatulist The legendary Stin Kee is practically (myself excluded) unknown in progressive music circles. Art is three-quarters fart, and he knew how to put the fart in art. He was a man before his time, and should be recognised as a leading figure in Proto-Progressive Flatulism (it's a shame that Fart Rock is not a recognised category at this site -- too anal perhaps). I hope to rectalfy this situation with a glorious epic production shot in smell-O-vision that pays tribute to a this great and inspirational Canadian entertainer that has indirectly inspired such bands as Air Supply and Visible Wind. Truly, he is the wind beneath my wings. First off; some background historical info. A Fragrant Art In the 1950s, the advent of home television led to declining cinema audiences. In a desperate search for gimmicks to lure people back to the cinema, movie theatres experimented with a whole range of gimmicks, from tremOrama (which was on shaky ground) to Smell-O-Rama. With Smell-O-Rama, the odours were circulated through the air ventilation units. This technique was first used in the Mickey Mouse cult classic, "Who Cut the Cheese? " (perhaps DT will dispense with LaBrie at some time at which time a documentary will be made called "Why Cut LaBrie?"). Part 1: The Life and Times of Stin Kee: aka the Rise and Fall and Rise and Fall Again of a Canadian Legend Stin Keizerensteinemen was born in Eastern Europe in 1892 to a poor gypsy circus family. They migrated to British Columbia, Canada in 1896, anglicized their family name to Kee, and quickly found success on the Vancouver vaudeville circuit, delighting dozens. Stin had a troubled childhood; he suffered from severe gastro-intestinal problems. However, the family used Stin's ailment to their advantage. In 1898 they brought him into the show, where he performed as a flatulence artist. Stin Kee's performance became widely renowned, and people would travel from as far away as Burnaby (a municipality about a ten minute drive from downtown Vancouver) to catch his act. As Stin's fame increased, he dumped his family, took on a solo career, and entertained thousands at venues such as Carnegie Hall, the Royal Albert Hall, the Commodore Ballroom, and Zellers. Unfortunately, with the advent of moving pictures and its increasing popularity, people became less interested in vaudeville. Stin Kee's career languished and his health deteriorated. In the 1940s, with the popularity of Glen Miller, Stin Kee reinvented himself as the big band leader of Stin Kee's Big Wind Orchestra to rave reviews. However, the pressure of performing became too much for Stin Kee's intestines, and he was confined to hospital for many years in a well ventilated room. Never-the-less, he managed to make some progressive should-be classic covers during his bed-ridden period, including a backside version of Bach's "Air on the G-String" as well as explosive versions of both Focus' and ELP's "Eruption." It's not surprising, as farting around is common to progressive Rock. Despite his poor health, Stin Kee lived into his nineties and died an old fart. Part 2: The Return of Stin Kee: Get your stinkin' beaver paws off me! aka The Beaver Warriors Now for some speculation:This hasn't happened yet, of course, but I think it's fair to speculate with recent developments such as GMB (genetically modified beavers) that this might happen at some time. I propose this prognostication as a dramatization of probable future events. At the very least, one could consider this a beaver cautionary tale. The year is 2018 and most of the world's petroleum deposits have dried up. The world's economies and governments have collapsed, and territories are ruled by ruthless semi-intelligent beavers ... the humans are enslaved. Dam those beavers! The beavers, who are in control of the last remaining and almost depleted petroleum reserves, rule the world by recklessly driving around in fast cars and motorcycles -- not only does this terrify and shame the human males into submission, but the beavers fast cars ensure that they pick up all the hottest chicks... Whilst chewing through a few old books, a group of bogus beaver historians encounter the story of Stin Kee, and, for no reason whatsoever -- other than they find anything to do with flatulence hilarious and they like to hang around in beaver bars -- they tell a group of beavers they met at a bar about it. By a most extraordinarily convenient, and ridiculous plot device, the beavers they inform just happen to be semi-brilliant rogue scientists who specialise in alternative fuel sources. The semi-smart beaver scientists develop a hypothesis which turns out to be completely wrong, but that's another story. ... skip six months and fifty pages to The Gas Chamber... With the help of the historians they find Stin Kee's air-tight tomb where he lies perfectly preserved in his own gasses. Using semi-super beaver science they rejuvenate and revive him. They force him to power a really fast natural gas vehicle. He who controls the gas gets the chicks (or more aptly beavers) and rules the world! When the other beavers see how fast the rogue beavers can drive, they fall off their feet in wonder and fear, and naturally they pledge allegiance to the their new masters superior torque and power. However, Stin Kee eventually kills his enslavers (the details are unimportant, but it involves removing his tail-pipe) and comes to rule the world and get all the hottest chicks. And he lives happily ever after. The end! Or is it? We can only hope. *Notes: Stin Kee is a "legend," in much the same way that King Arthur is, and even more like he isn't. And like the legend of King Arthur of Camelot, the legend of Stin Kee Fartur of Toot-a-lot is shrouded in an air of mystery. But unlike Arthur, the legend of Stin Kee is also shrouded in an air of stench. And that's what makes him so special! He deserves a big-budget smell-o-rama feature film as a tribute to all those who have lifted our spirits with their sweet effluvia. copyright Logan Productions, all rights reserved No beavers were harmed in the making of this story. So, assuming Stin Kee existed, would there be any case for his inclusion in the archives as a Progressive fartist? I say no, especially because his cover songs stunk! Edited by Logan - February 16 2010 at 12:55 |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:24 |
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Why always take poor old Genesis for examples??
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:28 |
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DT... already a prog legend?
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Kashmir75 wrote: