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LanCaiHe 
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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 Posted: July 27 2009 at 17:12 |
Yes, bands like Yes and ELP sold out arenas in the 70's! Imagine thousands of teens listening to Keith Emerson play a combo of jazz and classical music on a grand piano! Something that may never be seen again!
 lucas wrote:
LanCaiHe wrote:
Prog isn't very popular though is it? |
Wasn't prog popular in the seventies ?
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Jim
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 13:25 |
moshkito wrote:
kingfriso wrote:
In the classic '70 progressive period the word Progressive wasn't used concerning music. Now the term is used, a lot of bands don't turn out to be so progressive... this is quite a puzzling problem |
The term did not begin to make itself "known" or "used" until the mid-eighties and probably later.
It was not "prog" then and it is not "prog" now ... the only thing that separated these musicians fro pop music, was that they had a lot less of an interest in "pop music" than they did in the scholarly desire to do something better with their instruments than play crap and cheap pop music, most of which takes absolutely no talent to play at all.
Combined with the fact that the majority of those musicians were really educated and knowledgeable about music it is no surprise that they would want to create a "poem", a "symphony", a "lieder" ... and not something that is called "prog" ...
No one, in their right mind sets out to play ... "prog" ... they will be dead before the first album is out! Not to mention trashed senseless in this area since no one even knows what it is ... why would someone create music just because of one "style"? ... that is not even what making music is all about at all! |
One can be interested in a certain music scene or mindset. Since most musicians listen to music themselves and are influenced by other musicians, it isn't a strange fenomonan that styles came to exististence. I do think a lot of musicians (one of them is me) still greatly admire the bands of the progressive period for their groundbraking work on rockmusic. Who wouldn't want to join this search for the undiscovered possibilities of music? And if this mindset is called 'prog', then so be it.
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LanCaiHe
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 13:38 |
King Friso! Well said! 
kingfriso wrote:
moshkito wrote:
kingfriso wrote:
In the classic '70 progressive period the word Progressive wasn't used concerning music. Now the term is used, a lot of bands don't turn out to be so progressive... this is quite a puzzling problem |
The term did not begin to make itself "known" or "used" until the mid-eighties and probably later.
It was not "prog" then and it is not "prog" now ... the only thing that separated these musicians fro pop music, was that they had a lot less of an interest in "pop music" than they did in the scholarly desire to do something better with their instruments than play crap and cheap pop music, most of which takes absolutely no talent to play at all.
Combined with the fact that the majority of those musicians were really educated and knowledgeable about music it is no surprise that they would want to create a "poem", a "symphony", a "lieder" ... and not something that is called "prog" ...
No one, in their right mind sets out to play ... "prog" ... they will be dead before the first album is out! Not to mention trashed senseless in this area since no one even knows what it is ... why would someone create music just because of one "style"? ... that is not even what making music is all about at all! |
One can be interested in a certain music scene or mindset. Since most musicians listen to music themselves and are influenced by other musicians, it isn't a strange fenomonan that styles came to exististence. I do think a lot of musicians (one of them is me) still greatly admire the bands of the progressive period for their groundbraking work on rockmusic. Who wouldn't want to join this search for the undiscovered possibilities of music? And if this mindset is called 'prog', then so be it. |
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Jim
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LanCaiHe
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 14:57 |
Maybe I"m under the wrong topic, but I've only now heard, over and over again, about this band Opeth. I went and listened to a bunch of their stuff on Youtube. Sorry to say, I don't see it as prog at all. I can hardly stomach it. It's boring as all hell. Just my opinionof course.  If they spent half as much time playing as they do shaking their hair around, maybe they would play something worthwhile. 
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Jim
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 15:20 |
Okay, you're probably in the wrong topic, but It's okay anyway  Opeth is DEFINITELY a GREAT band. Listen to the whole Damnation album, or Face of Melinda (on Still Life) if you just heard the growling vocals and that's what you don't like. * When I started to listen to Opeth, I had a problem with their growling vocals ('cause I don't really like growling, it's just not my thing) but now I can really enjoy them, you'll know what I mean!
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
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Fieldofsorrow
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 220
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 15:24 |
Opeth require a lot of patience, I believe. It's progressive, mainly, because they have their own very distinct sound. But yes, I think you are under the wrong topic. 
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Groovy teenage rock with mild prog tendencies: http://www.myspace.com/omniabsenceband
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amjch70
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 21 2008
Location: Costa Rica
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:07 |
I think some people here will hate
me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong,
PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my
opinion.
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Twirling round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:21 |
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:35 |
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
Fear Of A Blank Planet is definitely prog. Anesthesize, someone?
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
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amjch70
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 21 2008
Location: Costa Rica
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:41 |
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
We’re on the same
page with that. Both are great bands (The first record that I bought with my
own money was Broken by NIN) but they’re not prog. I also have the same issue
with Anathema. I love it but I don’t consider it a prog band.
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Twirling round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this
chance to be alive and breathing
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LanCaiHe
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:46 |
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Yes, well, I went back to that band Opeth, and they are definitely not prog. There is just nothing special about it. I can't even stand waiting for them to start talking. Remind me of that movie by the Kids in the Hall "Brain Candy".....that metal band called "Grievo". LOL So boring. :-(
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Jim
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amjch70
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 21 2008
Location: Costa Rica
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 20:48 |
ProGR72 wrote:
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
Fear Of A Blank Planet is definitely prog. Anesthesize, someone? |
Anesthetize is definitely
a prog song, but I don’t think the rest of the album is
prog (for example Sleep together or Way out of here). They’re an excellent
band but I can’t say that one band is progressive just for one song.
Please don’t get
me wrong with this. I really
like PT 
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Twirling round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this
chance to be alive and breathing
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Scourge441
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 16 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 5
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 21:06 |
LanCaiHe wrote:
Yes, well, I went back to that band Opeth, and they are definitely not prog. There is just nothing special about it. I can't even stand waiting for them to start talking. Remind me of that movie by the Kids in the Hall "Brain Candy".....that metal band called "Grievo". LOL So boring. :-(
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Wait. So it's not prog because... you think they're boring? Sorry, that just doesn't pass the smell test. If I like death metal, and I also like Regina Spektor, does that make Regina Spektor death metal? No. So why should it work the other way around? The music itself is what determines the genre. Not the preferences of the listener.
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Mr.Gryn
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 03 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 21:34 |
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Lot's of bands start out proggish then move over to mainstream after a radio hit or two. One example is Genesis.
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Nuke
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 271
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 21:53 |
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
I don't understand why people think genre classifcations are mutually exclusive. Just because porcupine tree have put an "alternative rock" element into their sound does not affect their strong prog influences and techniques. I mean, on Fear of a Blank Planet we have multiple instruments per person, Fripp soundscapes, alex lifeson solos, a thematic and musical concept, a nearly 18 minute long song, what else do you need to call it prog? As for the whole pop thing, I find that when most prog band attempt to write a pop song, they fail miserably. I'm not sure why it is so hard for them, but there is something tricky about writing good pop music, and I think it relies a lot more on instinct than knowledge of songwriting techniques or instrumental skills. However, I don't mind when prog bands stray from prog, I just wish they left pop alone or else learned a bit more about how to write a good pop song. ELP did fine when they did fun songs like benny the bouncer without straying into pop music.
Edited by Nuke - July 28 2009 at 21:54
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 22:16 |
Nuke wrote:
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
I don't understand why people think genre classifcations are mutually exclusive. Just because porcupine tree have put an "alternative rock" element into their sound does not affect their strong prog influences and techniques. I mean, on Fear of a Blank Planet we have multiple instruments per person, Fripp soundscapes, alex lifeson solos, a thematic and musical concept, a nearly 18 minute long song, what else do you need to call it prog?
As for the whole pop thing, I find that when most prog band attempt to write a pop song, they fail miserably. I'm not sure why it is so hard for them, but there is something tricky about writing good pop music, and I think it relies a lot more on instinct than knowledge of songwriting techniques or instrumental skills. However, I don't mind when prog bands stray from prog, I just wish they left pop alone or else learned a bit more about how to write a good pop song. ELP did fine when they did fun songs like benny the bouncer without straying into pop music. |
Agreed! Looks like there's someone who understands 
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: July 28 2009 at 22:18 |
Nuke wrote:
topofsm wrote:
amjch70 wrote:
I think some people here will hate me, but I don’t think Porcupine Tree is a progressive band. Don’t get me wrong, PT is one of my favorite bands but I don’t think it’s a prog band. Just my opinion. |
You know, I tend to agree, though I haven't heard PT's earlier work, which I hear is quite psychedelic. Their latest outputs are clearly alternative rock IMO, with a decent amount of leaning towards prog. The thing is, I find recent PT output much like Nine Inch Nails, which as one of my favorite bands ever are also clearly not prog. However, had NIN emerged in the same scene as PT instead of the mainstream alternative rock/grunge one in the early nineties, I believe their credibility as prog would be just as much as Porcupine Tree |
I don't understand why people think genre classifcations are mutually exclusive. Just because porcupine tree have put an "alternative rock" element into their sound does not affect their strong prog influences and techniques. I mean, on Fear of a Blank Planet we have multiple instruments per person, Fripp soundscapes, alex lifeson solos, a thematic and musical concept, a nearly 18 minute long song, what else do you need to call it prog?
As for the whole pop thing, I find that when most prog band attempt to write a pop song, they fail miserably. I'm not sure why it is so hard for them, but there is something tricky about writing good pop music, and I think it relies a lot more on instinct than knowledge of songwriting techniques or instrumental skills. However, I don't mind when prog bands stray from prog, I just wish they left pop alone or else learned a bit more about how to write a good pop song. ELP did fine when they did fun songs like benny the bouncer without straying into pop music. |
I don't think the two genres are exclusive. The Mars Volta and The Dear Hunter are also quite clearly alternative rock (though not similar sounding) yet they are also quite prog. Porcupine Tree is not so much. While I do see all their progressive elements, I find that their alternative rock elements overshadow them. Not to say they're a bad band. And I would say Anesthetize is definitely a prog song, though I could name quite a few prog songs by NIN.
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LanCaiHe
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: July 29 2009 at 06:25 |
No, that's not really what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is that they are not PROG, period. I don't know what classification you might want to use, but I guess it depends on your definition of PROG. I use this definition of PROG. Prog of course is short for PROGRESSIVE....to PROGRESS right? PROG started in the late 60's and had it's big time in the early 70's. ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant, PFM, King Crimson, Henry Cow, Yes, to name only a fraction. Does Opeth have anything in common with these bands soundwise, form wise, or otherwise???? I think the answer is a big NO. The only thing they have in common is possibly that they use drums and guitars, that's about it. There is nothing special about their music whatsoever, nothing "different" only tons of metalish distorted slow paced guitar arpeggios of uninteresting chords and growling uninspired vocals. They only thing they do well, it seems, is shake their hair around. So if you lay out your description of what Prog is to you, then I will lay out my requirements. Before you say it, no, I don't believe making something musically complex designates it as Prog, so please don't even go there, even though PROG is a step above most rock music technically speaking.
>>>Wait. So it's not prog because... you think they're boring?<<<
Sorry, that just doesn't pass the smell test. If I like death metal, and I also like Regina Spektor, does that make Regina Spektor death metal? No. So why should it work the other way around?
The music itself is what determines the genre. Not the preferences of the listener.
[/QUOTE]
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Jim
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LanCaiHe
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 20 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: July 29 2009 at 06:53 |
My God, I've listened to more Opeth than I ever care to again. I just listened to two more tunes. If anything at all they are Goth Metal. If I had the distasteful task of categorizing their music, that's what heading I would put them under. We had an add compaign here where I live years ago for a sticker to put on household cleaning products to protect young children from poisoning themselves. It was a green sad face sticker. It was called "Mr. Yuck." The theme music for the slogan was this simple tune built on a diminished chord and a tritone that said "Mr. Yuck is green, Mr. Yuck is Mean!" It sounded exactly like the two Opeth songs I just listened to. 
LanCaiHe wrote:
Yes, well, I went back to that band Opeth, and they are definitely not prog. There is just nothing special about it. I can't even stand waiting for them to start talking. Remind me of that movie by the Kids in the Hall "Brain Candy".....that metal band called "Grievo". LOL So boring. :-( |
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Jim
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: July 29 2009 at 06:56 |
Of course Opeth is not "prog". Opeth is progressive metal, which is not "prog" (like King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc.). We should quit using "prog" when talking about modern progressive genres because old-timers don't know what we're talking about. 
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Prog's not prog.
