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Meddler 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 29 2005 Location: Massillon Status: Offline Points: 881 |
 Posted: April 25 2006 at 16:13 |
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BUCKETHEAD
 He still scares me...  I'll go with Jeff Beck.  Edited by Meddler - April 25 2006 at 16:14 |
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006 Status: Offline Points: 318 |
Posted: April 25 2006 at 18:18 |
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I agree 100% that these are juvenile polls and am embarrassed by many of the uninformed musings that highlight the discusions. I am assuming by being on this site for awhile that not many of you have the ability or the understanding to be anywhere near an objective assumption of who is better than who anyway. Really who wants another ignorent crtic?
I like...Stevie Ray vaughn, Mike Oldfield, Jeff Beck, Nick Drake, Dan Ar Braz and many others.
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 11:57 |
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Hey Reality, get a grip on yourself & lighten up...I think it's funny that those who so vehemently object to these "juvenile" best-of polls proceed to participate, after setting all of us straight as to why this type of poll shouldn't even be here in the first place...And Mike Oldfield in a short list of "best of"/"favorite" guitarists? The man has many talents, not sure that "great guitar player" is one of them, in light of the myriad other possible choices...Explain please!!!
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DarioIndjic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005 Location: Universe Status: Offline Points: 600 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 12:02 |
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Satriani,Vai and Malmsteen???
What is all the focus about them,they are only masturbating their guitars, emotionless music.
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Ars longa , vita brevis
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 12:40 |
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Very well put,my thoughts exactly  |
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Serguilloche
Forum Groupie 
Joined: April 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 84 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 15:13 |
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All the focus is because they are supremely talented guitar players. Malmsteen virtually invented neo-classical shred and is one of the most influential players ever. To say his playing is emotionless is to display an ignorance of a large body of his work. Listen to Yankee Rose and tell me Steve Vai is emotionless. When I went to see Dream Theatre on the SFAM tour my girlfriend was next to me in tears, moved by the emotion she felt in the music, and there were 2 nerdy students behind me whinging about Petrucci masturbating on his guitar. Ever since then I've found that phrase annoying. I wonder how many people accused Liszt of masturbating on his piano, or Chopin, god you're so un-emotional Frederick, writing all those Etude. Edited by Serguilloche - April 26 2006 at 15:14 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 15:35 |
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^
 couldn't agree more! Except perhaps that "Yankee Rose" is not the best example for Vai's emotional playing - better examples would be the 7th tracks of his studio albums.
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 16:46 |
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There's plenty of talent, sure, but that word encompasses quite a few different types of skills. What I think of in conjunction with the term "shred" has to do with physical skill, such as speed & accuracy, and maybe abilities relative to reading music. Also perhaps a good command of effects...
What I & others are talking about when we question the inclusion of the likes of Mssrs Vai, Malmsteen & Satriani in these types of polls and the references to a lack of soul in their playing have less to do with this type of physical talent and much more with the spiritual side. There's such a deliberate focus on the physical skills that the rest is shortchanged or ignored completely...
I found this to be true for myself after getting into some speedmetal back in the early/mid 80's. Players like Marty Friedman/Jason Becker (Cacophony) and Paul Gilbert (Racer X) were really cool to listen to, but after a while I was finding myself getting tired of the wall of notes & the constant staccato-type attack on music...I found that once the initial novelty had worn off, I could only sit through a couple of tunes before having to move on to something else...
Yngwie also has this effect on me. It's hard to nail down, but the musical choices that players make has a lot to do with it. Music needs "room", and shredders don't seem to instinctively know this but rather feel the need to cover the musical landscape with as much output as possible...That's not to say that a shredder can't play other types of music convincingly, it's just that they most often choose not to (and this makes them shedders in the first place). It's those musical choices that ultimately make them less interesting as players...
The best example of this that I've ever heard is Gary Moore...To me, none of the players you mentioned above have anything on him talent-wise & he's rightly considered to be a metal "god" for his 70's & 80's material, but there's a whole other side to his playing that reflects his roots (blues) & his experimental phase (fusion w/Colosseum II & some solo stuff). Even when spitting out impossibly-fast metal solos, you could always tell that there was some other level beneath, where his playing was anchored & that has to do with his "soul". I'm not getting that from these others...
Another great example is "Love Devotion Surrender", the 1973 collaboration of John McLaughlin w/Carlos Santana to produce a jazz/rock fusion record. You might say: "Well, that can't possibly work because McLaughlin is a fusion "god" & Santana plays latin-influenced rock. Either McLaughlin will totally dominate, or Santana will just stick to the rock side of the equation...". The reason it works is because: a) Santana has the musical chops & b) he has that "something extra" (soul?) that infuses his playing & makes you want to listen. I'm not sure that pairing McLaughlin with Malmsteen would do the same for me...
I have Jason Becker's solo record Perpetual Burn & most of it is shred-style guitar, but then there's the track "Air" that makes you sit up & listen. It's so out of character & really reminds you of what he could sound like of he chose to go that way...Malmsteen & company should make better choices as guitar players & musicians, then I'd probably have more regard for their material...
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Serguilloche
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 84 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:28 |
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My choice in my first post in this thread of Romeo being the 'best' guitarist in prog is mainly due to what you say. He knows what to play and when to play it, and has a huge amount of restraint for someone so obviously influenced by Malmsteen. Romeo is primarily about the art, when Yngwie is about the virtuosity.
As far as the bits about 'choices' go, Yngwie chooses to play in his style because he likes the music that way, the same most honest musicians do I imagine. I don't believe he could make 'better' choices, certainly he could make different ones. I consider Santana a tedious t**ser, and really really wish he hadn't made that song with Matchbox 20, what little respect I had for him evaporated instantly. I also believe that 'soul' or 'emotion' in music comes from what we as listeners invest in the music. I consider some of Bathory's output highly emotional music that stirs my emotions massively, but many others would disagree. Luckily we can disagree but still be happy with our own tastes. |
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:58 |
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Agreed, we can disagree & both be happy with our opinions...As to my use of the term "better" when referring to Malmsteen's musical choices, my definition goes back to his soul...Ultimately, anyone rating a musician's output against others is subjectively measuring it using some personal yardstick & criteria. Presumably, your "honest musician" does the same when creating that music in order to make the choices of what notes/chords stay, which ones are discarded & in what order the notes are presented. Who & what you are will ultimately determine what you do, just as Mr Malmsteen's musical choices reflect who he is. Some players are just "deeper" to start with & so have more to draw upon when creating their music, which doesn't really have a whole lot to do with training or practice ("chops")...
I partly agree with your assessment of soul in music, but you've left out the other side of the equation, which is what the musician has put into the creation process. Your "honest musician" has made music that he/she likes, so they've already put their being (soul) into it. We listeners interpret what we hear, but what we hear is first influenced by the person creating it. And as to Santana being "a tedious t**ser", I'll take 5 helpings please!
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MadcapLaughs84
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 658 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 01:38 |
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John Petrucci
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razifa
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 224 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 03:18 |
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Michael Romeo from Symphony X
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**********
**razifa** ********** |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 03:26 |
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the master.....what other guitarist has their own college...?
 http://www.hendrix.edu/
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Soundgarden Status: Offline Points: 18292 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 07:08 |
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Other -> Jimmy Page
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_sam_
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 125 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 12:46 |
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Joe Satriani.
I don't much care for Malmsteen or Petrucci, with whom he is often associated, but Satch's music has always had a special place for me ever since my father purchased Surfing With The Alien for me on my 11th birthday. I fell in love with "Echo"... Edited by _sam_ - April 30 2006 at 12:48 |
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crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 848 |
Posted: April 30 2006 at 13:18 |
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I cant play the guitar, so cant really judge whos *technically* the best....although Fripp often sounds to me as if hes playing on the edge of whats possible, so he may be The Man.
If we're playing the game of "I can think of a good, arguably prog guitarist, whom nobody has yet mentioned", then its worth mentioning that Fripp himself has expressed in print his admiration for, and influence by, Robin Trower. Very different style, all fuzzy & laid back, but can sometimes do the "goose-bump" thing for me, as on "I cant wait much longer", which is the key indicator for me.
But probably the one I enjoy listening to most often, most of all, is Gilmour. Deceptively simple, maybe evn just (*just*! ha!) bluesy, but he never seems to be breaking sweat - its all so effortless.
Couldnt bring myself to cast a vote, though.
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Kord
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 329 |
Posted: June 05 2006 at 08:44 |
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Eric Clapton and Jimmy page????????
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best guitarist
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Peter Rideout wrote:
It's not a sport, math or science -- art lives mainly in the emotional, subjective realm. We can't "measure" it.
(I've only made this point about 1000 times here, though nothing changes, and tomorrow there'll no doubt be a new crop of the same old "best," "worst" and "overrated" polls....
