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Topic ClosedAll Christians are Homophobes

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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 05:51

I have not read everything on this thread because I am a bit tired of these theological arguments. I will only speak of male homosexuality in this post.

However on the homophobia, I have a few things to say. I have a few friends who are homos and you would never know it by looking at them or hearing them. You could swear that these guys are absolutely normal but just fell in love with a man instead of a woman. Homos such as those are absolutely no problems and I respect them as much as heteros (I respect the vast majority of gays). I respect also the fact that they are to form a couple and a good deal of European countries have accepted that the have the same advantages as married couples sometimes even allowing them to marry in city hall. I am a little wary of them being allowed to adopt or bring up children. The Church weddings are the least of my concerns (I am an atheist) but these wedding rites were done for matrimony and founding families; so I find the gay community's claim to marry in them churches rather nul and uselessly provocative. It is a bit wanting to breal things just to break them.

What I have problems with are all those homos ACTING the stereotype, playing transvestite, acting precious and artsy-fartsy, portraying openly sexual attitudes out of provocation. Those gays purposely derange heteros by unnecessarily fronting feminine attitudes  thus provoking an empathy towards them. And one thing most of women forget, Gays do not like women (dare I say they despise them), and by adopting this feminine attitudes, they are actually ridiculizing women who actually think that those gays are actually nice guys because they are in touch with their feminine sides. A good deal of those people are people obsessed with their dicks and have very disturbed sex lives (A very somber scene in the film Les Nuits Fauves by this artist Cyrille Collard who was dying of aids at the time describing all of those males just jacking each other off in large committee - some fifty characters in the same room -  but never engaging in lovemaking or  sodomy) and  I would suggest that their frustrations are problematic enough that they could be classified as "deviants" (not my words , but right now I cannot think of another word unless abnormal) by conservative people whether they are religious or not. Those behaviours are direct reasons of homophobia.

Of course, apart from that category are the gays who feel trapped in "the other sex body" are really in great distress but instead of going transvestite, I would advise them to go transsexual (easier and less costly said and done) and maybe find their peace.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 08:47
We all have faults, homosexuality is an interesting
subject, in that I dont think anyone is born anything
but hetrosexual. For whatever reason someone
chooses to cross that line, you are into spiritual
territory now. If you open the door(sexual act) then
you are allowing spiritual control of a portion of your
life or character.

Only healing and spiritual intravention are able to
close that door. Many so called ministers are not
equipped for this service as it requires supernatural
power(maybe laying on of hands by someone truly
baptised in the Holy Spirit) not a seminar scholar of
the word, but most egos cant accept this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 09:03

Originally posted by DallasBryan DallasBryan wrote:

when it comes to homosexuality for me! I am a
basketball center, I just block that shot!

We all have faults, homosexuality is an interesting
subject, in that I dont think anyone is born anything
but hetrosexual. For whatever reason someone
chooses to cross that line, you are into spiritual
territory now. If you open the door(sexual act) then
you are allowing spiritual control of a portion of your
life or character.
Only healing and spiritual intravention are able to
close that door. Many so called ministers are not
equipped for this service as it requires supernatural
power(maybe laying on of hands by someone truly
baptised in the Holy Spirit) not a seminar scholar of
the word, but most egos cant accept this.

Why are you repeating yourself Dallas?

BTW I think the laying on of hands is the root of the problem. leave your hands above the blanket is what I've learned



Edited by tuxon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 09:27
i have had the experience of working in an industry predominated by homosexuals....as a waiter....it ahs been my experience that in general homosexuals exhibit less tolerance for heteros than we toward them....they also seem to find it amusing to try to "convert" heteros...i beleive that the negative sterotypes extant regarding homosexuals are in most senses largely self-perpetuated

Edited by hopelevre
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maani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 11:35

threefates:

In addition to JrKASperov's cites and position, did you bother to actually read the cite you provided?  Even that study found that there is only a "possibility" of a genetic marker for homosexuality in a "portion" of the population - hardly a resounding argument for the absolute existence of a "gay gene."

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 12:19
There is a gene that has been discovered on the X chromosome which in a study was found to exist in one form in 75% of gay men and in another form in 75% of straight men.  While not even those conducting the study would have suggested that homosexuality is a purely genetic condition (that would be ridiculous) it does show that genetic factors do have a role in predisposing someone to becoming a homosexual.

Speculation about how this gene could have come about is all theory, but my favourite is that the gene conferred some form of protection to daughters and thus continued to exist despite most males carrying it not passing it on (i think you can work out why) because females carrying it were more likely to survive till reproductive age.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 12:27

IDIOTS! feelings aren't for study!!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 12:28
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

What I have problems with are all those homos ACTING the stereotype, playing transvestite, acting precious and artsy-fartsy, portraying openly sexual attitudes out of provocation. Those gays purposely derange heteros by unnecessarily fronting feminine attitudes  thus provoking an empathy towards them.

I agree entirely, I find camp homosexuality incredibly irritating - but then, I find stereotypes and clichés of virtually any type irritating.

edit: hang on, "[gays] don't like women" is a bit of a sweeping statement, isn't it? do you have any evidence for this?



Edited by goose
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 12:30
Obviously, I'm not an expert of the field, BUT...


Whilst repeating that there is no "gay-gene", you aren't giving any proof for homosexuality being learned or taught.

I have never searched for studies of this matter, nor will I ever.

It is simply logical to me that if homosexuality (or rather, bisexuality) isn't born with due to "gay-gene(s)", it could be born with due to a lack of some reproductive- or "hetero-" gene.

Of course the environment we live and are raised in affects us in multiple ways. But that does not "prove" that our genetic inheritance could play a major role whilst we search for a partner.


But really guys? Does it matter to anyone where or how or when homosexuality is born? If such things matter to you, you certainly are lacking in acceptance.

Cheers

-Beau


PS.Besides, if one is able to acquire a taste for prog metal, one can just as well acquire a taste for - as stated earlier - a pain in the ass...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:06
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

threefates:

In addition to JrKASperov's cites and position, did you bother to actually read the cite you provided?  Even that study found that there is only a "possibility" of a genetic marker for homosexuality in a "portion" of the population - hardly a resounding argument for the absolute existence of a "gay gene."

Peace.

Yes, I did read it Maani... and I also read all the articles coming out of the Gay Men's Health Crisis brochures a few years ago about the find.  They were worried that this would lead to couples aborting children that may be found to have the gene.  Its a scarey issue, but after reading certain remarks on this thread... pretty likely to happen.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:15
yea im sure Gay Men's Health Crisis has no reason to distort the facts....great source

Edited by hopelevre
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:15

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:


Look at the date and compare with my articles: yours is from Science.
1993 Jul 16;261(5119):321-7.

Quote

Date doesn't make much difference... many christian and religious researchers are trying to stamp out this find.  Probably for the same reason you are.

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:


It's existence should remove itself because gay couples don't make kids. Even if we take into account the possibility that more people are coming out for it and may have been making children because of bisexuality or being respressed, it still means that logically, the number of gay people should be in decline. Especially when this gene is resessive, as stated in the argument below.

First, I have 3 gay couples in my building with children.. so I don't understand why you would think that being gay means you can't have children...  And they aren't bisexual or repressed. And gay men can have children that carry on the gene for a few generations before showing up again... Just like twins... or eye color.. or race..

Quote
Huh?? Are you kidding??  Anyone can carry a homosexual gene.. and you don't have to be homosexual to carry one.  Children with down syndrome come by that genetically.. and most times neither parent has down syndrome...  Also plenty of homosexual men are having children.. 

 You have two types of genes, dominant ones and resessive ones. A gene is either one or the other. If it is dominant, people with the gene always are gay(this is certainly not the case, else there would only be gay parents and children, while we find not gay parents and children as well). If it is resessive, one who carries it does not act gay. The only way to come around this is having two gay genes, which drastically reduces the chance of gayness. Something which certainly does not agree with the rather large amount of gay people in this world. They should be about the same number as Down syndrome people while they are certainly more.

I live in a somewhat gay community here in NYC... I know plenty of gays who have gay siblings, relatives.. who's parents come out of the closet once their kids grow up...

[quote]As the mother of a gay child, I can certainly tell you that he did not choose it and it was not from some earlier childhood trauma.  It is just him.  Because he came from an accepting household.. in a gay friendly town, he confronted this earlier than most and we dealt with it together when he first entered his teens.
So is it hard for you people to accept this because it means that God made them this way... or because it means you can't blame them for being this way??


As the mother of a gay child, you have no special authority to call him 'just that way' whatsoever. Like Maani pointed out and the posted articles(especially compared to your OLD article), it's a choice.

Uhh yes I do.  Cause not only have I spotted the markers over the years in him, but in most of his gay friends also.  You have to live it to know it.  You live with a gay child for a few years... then come back and tell me something..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:17
an alcoholic can have the "gene" i.e. be predisposed toward alcoholism...and nevertheless not become an alcoholic if he makes the choice not to drink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:17

Originally posted by hopelevre hopelevre wrote:

yea im sure Gay Men's Health Crisis has no reason to distort the facts....great source

No, I guess worrying about an issue like that is just a way of getting attention..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:22

Originally posted by hopelevre hopelevre wrote:

an alcoholic can have the "gene" i.e. be predisposed toward alcoholism...and nevertheless not become an alcoholic if he makes the choice not to drink

ok.. then lets consider this ... what if homosexuality was the normal way of being...

Think of your sexuality, how easy do you think it would be for you to make a decision to change...

Give me a break, you guys remind me of that Star Trek episode where the guys were half black and half white... and where still biased against each other because of which side of their body was black and which was white....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:22
its so much easier to say the kids just that way than to face the issue of whether or not your own role in his environmental conditioning may have played a part in the homosexual result...kudos to you for taking the high road

Edited by hopelevre
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:25

Originally posted by hopelevre hopelevre wrote:

its so much easier to say the kids just that way than to face the issue of whether or not your own role in his environmental conditioning may have played a part in the homosexual result...kudos to you for taking the high road

Yeh, like you have a clue!!

There is no high road.. there is no low road... there's just the way it is!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:28
if gay was the norm teh species would die out....it is as black and white as this....teh sole purpose of humanity is nothing more than to perpetuate god(nature)...since humans have the ability to do this only with heterosexual sex a choice to lead a lifestyle that deviates is a direct negation of god's will, nature, humanity, and every semblance of divinity in our largely unjust world(and no, james lee, having anal sex once is not the same...this is a choice for life not for a night)...to choose against nature(in turn humanity) IS a choice, a moral failing , and to indulge (soem of you seem ready to nigh reward them) those who do it is just as much of a crime....that said i love everyone although i realize the adverse oaffects of some, it is not my place to hold it against any one person

Edited by hopelevre
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:32
threefates-more like a way of trying to engender some feelings   of credulity amidst public highly skeptical of a spurious issue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 13:40

Sean, hopelevre, et al...of course you've considered the possibility that the antipathy and dysfunction you refer to is the product of repressive or outright violent attitudes towards homosexuals? I know I might be a little touchy if every day I was faced with examples of people who'd prefer that I didn't exist (and who formulate various 'scientific' claims to back up their predjudice). In which case, the exaggeration of camp stereotypes would seem to be an extremely positive response...a refusal to disappear and a comment on the flexibility of personal identity. Not all social gains are made via violent protest and political debate.

I'm a little disappointed with the responses to this topic (not to mention the failure to respond to some of the points I've made...but maybe they're not as compelling as I thought they were  )It's understandable that it got bogged down in the "nature vs. nurture" context, but it seems that the majority view is subtly negative (the subtlety likely the result of awareness of appropriateness to the forum as well as fallout from the politically correct era). What I hear most of you saying is "I'm willing to acknowledge that gays exist, and I won't be mean to them, but I'd be just as happy if they all went away or stopped being gay."

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