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IVNORD 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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 Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:06 |
 kibble_alex wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
They not necessarily would raise taxes. The Bank of England has immense power to print money. If anything, it would bring inflation. Deflation is a product of overproduction and a shrinking monetary base. While the former has been the cause of the present deflationary trends, the latter is a surreal dream as the monetary base is expanding rather than shrinking. So the deflationary trend will be a transient feature ot the world economy and a terrific inflation will ensue and stay with us for some time. The 70's and early 80's are a good example of that |
Personally, I think it could be either. You have convinced me, but I will stick with my guns on this one. Britain will be a poor nation by the time this issue is over. We are already deep in recession at the moment, and I think most of us have experienced it first hand. I'm now completely out of pocket and now loaning off my parents, who are almost out of pocket. You are right about the Bank of England being powerful, but I still think deflation would be a possibility. |
Deflation is a process of overall decrease in prices, sometimes causing the prices to fall below the cost of production. Situations like that lead to deep depressions as production shrinks. Fears of deflation triggered periodic interest rate reductions across the globe since the mid-90s.
kibble_alex wrote:
By the way, just to reflect on the status of the BOE, I'd like to highlight the fact that we are all living on a lie, and that the promise on all the notes is actually bullsh*t. The BOE haven't actually got enough gold to handout to everyone; only an estimated 7% of the population will be entitled to their share of what is promised on the notes. Don't you all find that pretty scary? 
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What is really scary here is the fact they still write that the pound is backed by gold if I understand you correctly. Is it really so? I never read what's written on the notes, not worth the time, but as far as I know the last gold standard bastion, Switzerland abandoned this nobel idea in 1999. England sold their last ounce in 2001 if I'm not mistaken.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:11 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Man, I wanted to make some really good points, but IVNORD already made most of them. The only thing I can think to add is that the best possible solution would be for the "Big 3" to declare bankruptcy and then restructure their companies from the bottom floor up to the top executives. Will some people lose their jobs over this? Unfortunately, yes, but I would prefer that to those companies going out of business and ALL the employees losing their jobs as well as all the retirees seeing their pensions flushed down the toilet. However, the companies have basically said that they'll refuse to declare bankruptcy so it looks like they probably won't survive. Also, the big 3 pay their employees, on average, about $63/hr (that's counting benefits and all), whereas Toyota, in their U.S. factories, pays an average of $48/hr with benefits. And retirees of the American auto industries make about 90-95% of the employees wages in their pensions/ Unfortunately this came about because, as IVNORD mentioned, of stupid labor laws that take away competitive wages, something that is absolutely essential in a free market economy. In spite of my long rambling, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we can't trust the government to fix this problem (because when does the gov't ever fix anything? ). Instead, the auto companies are going to have to fix it themselves, and from the looks of things it probably won't happen.
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The reality is that the unions should be eliminated. The irony is that neither party would ever dare do something like that
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:16 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Hey Ivnord- you heard of suicide bombers???? I don't think they really care about there own investment!!!! They use things for a future purpose!!!!! The eastern and the arab minds are very different to ours! What about the Divine Wind in the Pacific war!! |
I sure have heard of them, first hand. But they don't invest their hard earned dollars in our economy. Even such jackass as Osama with his quite significant for one person fortune wouldn't cripple our economy had he invested every single penny here. Now why would Saudi princes or Kuwaiti sheiks undermine the Western ecenomies? What would they do with their oil, or petrodollars for this matter, afterwards?
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:21 |
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Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!!
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:23 |
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The US needs oil - we all know that!!! The future trump cards aint gold or anything else. Without oil economies will grind to a halt if the rest of the world don't wake up and do something about that pretty quickly!!!
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 1367
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:26 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!! |
Yeah, nothing sucks worse than both sides believing they are the good guys and the other side is the devil. Makes it kind of hard to conduct business.
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 16:30 |
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We must always remember that the Oriental mind has a lot against the West because of the past. They think very differently to the way a Westerner does. (I love the East and Eastern philosophy so I aint bashing them here!!). We must always remember that the West is Satan to many of the Middle Eastern countries and they will destroy Satan if they can!!
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:26 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!! |
I smell the potential scent of a troll. If that's not what you're trying to do, I'd prefer that you further explain how any of this is related to the current economic discussion.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:30 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
DavetheSlave wrote:
Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!! |
I smell the potential scent of a troll. If that's not what you're trying to do, I'd prefer that you further explain how any of this is related to the current economic discussion.
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No Trolling here mate!!! I personally firmly believe what I've said and so do others!!! Do you really believe that the Governments will tell you the real reason underlying the current crises????
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:47 |
Here in Argentina our goverment. ( One of the most arrogant of all time Commanded by Cristina Kirchner and his husband former president Nestor) is taking useless measures to give the people something to talk about. They plan is to give low cost credits to buy electrodomestics and " your first car".
Well I say: What about your first house???? It's almost utopic to buy a house in Argentina , I guess I ll be living with my parents ´till I am 35!!! Inflation is also killing our wages.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 18:17 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
DavetheSlave wrote:
Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!! |
I smell the potential scent of a troll. If that's not what you're trying to do, I'd prefer that you further explain how any of this is related to the current economic discussion.
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No Trolling here mate!!! I personally firmly believe what I've said and so do others!!! Do you really believe that the Governments will tell you the real reason underlying the current crises???? |
Dude, terrorism isn't an economic issue. Of course, it may indirectly lead to economic problems: the damage caused by the WTC incedent cost millions to fix. But terrorism itself isn't an economic issue. And there's no need to shout every sentence.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 18:42 |
For all:
Please pay attention that this topic subject is Economical Discussion. There's another thread where Political issues can be discussed.
Anyway, posts with dubious references to different cultures and religions will be deleted.
Thanks!
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Guigo
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:17 |
debrewguy wrote:
Once more, I say - give the bailouts to the citizen, let him vote with that money as to who (corporation-wise) should survive and who should be left to die. |
lol, inflation.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:58 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
Maybe they don't care!!! They believe they gonna go to Heaven and get hold of 40 virgins!!!! By the way Osama has massive investment in the American and Europian Economy. His family were big mates with the Bush family once!!! The future battleground will be a very sad yet a very interesting one!!! |
Your style reminds me of a certain individual whose reincarnations on these forums under different names are remarkable.
Anyway let me try again. It's 72 virgins to be precise.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:06 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
debrewguy wrote:
Once more, I say - give the bailouts to the citizen, let him vote with that money as to who (corporation-wise) should survive and who should be left to die. |
lol, inflation. |
It's inflation one way or the other as the bailout money will eventually find its way into the economy. The only difference if we give the money to the consumer, the money pool should be mch higher to produce the desired effect, thus a much higher inflation
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:29 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
debrewguy wrote:
Once more, I say - give the bailouts to the citizen, let him vote with that money as to who (corporation-wise) should survive and who should be left to die. |
lol, inflation. |
And giving it to corporations will not have that effect ? Does it depends who spends it ?
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:08 |
Yes. There is a huge difference between loaning companies money so they don't collapse/buying terrible assets and giving everybody free money we don't have.
Which is not to say that the bank bailout will not cause inflation, but giving everyone in the US $10,000 is an even more terrible idea.
Edited by Henry Plainview - December 12 2008 at 22:09
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 13 2008 at 04:20 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Yes. There is a huge difference between loaning companies money so they don't collapse/buying terrible assets and giving everybody free money we don't have.
Which is not to say that the bank bailout will not cause inflation, but giving everyone in the US $10,000 is an even more terrible idea. |
Not if we mandate that it be spent on prog.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 13 2008 at 04:25 |
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Dropping by briefly.
Bear in mind, economics confused the f**k out of me. The free market is awesome, the free market sucks....I'd have to get a master's degree to even know who to trust.
Concerning the Auto Industry bailout:
I want people to pay for their stupidity, arrogance, and greed. If the companies were ran in ways that should cause them to fail without government intervention, so be it. I want heads to roll, metaphorically or otherwise. Do ordinary people working for corrupt owners deserve to lose their jobs? No. But unless Washington actually gets its head out of its ass and starts dealing with the cancer of corruption killing America, then I want the companies to die.
I'm in a perfect position for such anarchistic proposals. I go to college, but I have no plans for the future, and think more and more that Americans have had it too good for too long. Some strife and hardship is needed to make us not whine, cry, bully, and strut around the world like we have a 20 inch c**k.
Most other people might be afraid of deviation from their narrow, unfulfilled, boring, consumer lives, but I welcome change. Depression, recession, revolution (haha, it's not seeming too far-fetched to me at this point), whatever. Humanity is alive in struggle.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 13 2008 at 07:34 |
stonebeard wrote:
If the companies were ran in ways that should cause them to fail without government intervention, so be it. |
I agree with you whole-heartedly. Same with Britain's banks: we may as well embrace the bailout situation as a method of filtering out all of the weaker banks and let the stronger ones prevail, let nature take its cause.
stonebeard wrote:
Do ordinary people working for corrupt owners deserve to lose their jobs? No. But unless Washington actually gets its head out of its ass and starts dealing with the cancer of corruption killing America, then I want the companies to die. |
Trouble is though, and I say this as a parallel situation to America, what makes a country such as England great is the people and the fact that most of us are employed. Although I have pissed and moaned a fair bit about the unemployment rates, we still have them pretty low in comparison to the rest of the world. If a giant's handful of companies went out of business, then unemployment would be our next issue. And it would be huge.
stonebeard wrote:
I'm in a perfect position for such anarchistic proposals. I go to college, but I have no plans for the future, and think more and more that Americans have had it too good for too long. Some strife and hardship is needed to make us not whine, cry, bully, and strut around the world like we have a 20 inch c**k. |
I chuckled at that one. Britain walks around like America's girlfriend, going around boasting about her relationship with the 20 inch cock guy, and going up to him whenever she has any trouble. Yes, I am English, but I will openheartedly admit that we are America's bitch.
stonebeard wrote:
Most other people might be afraid of deviation from their narrow, unfulfilled, boring, consumer lives, but I welcome change. Depression, recession, revolution (haha, it's not seeming too far-fetched to me at this point), whatever. Humanity is alive in struggle.
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Now come on... the recession at the moment is not fun by any means. I take your point, but although the dream of a perfectly economical state is nie on impossible, it's worth aiming high as at least we are getting progressively closer. I'm all for this getting fixed, and if that means being bailed out by the Govt. then so be it. I just want a bloody job By the way, I'm still not THAT familiar with America's situation, so I am referring to Britain here 
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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