The Prog-Metal controversy

darqdean wrote: Metal as a genre is as diverse, eclectic and experimental as progressive rock so it is inevitable that the two genres will intersect and impinge musically at every point along the scale from Jazz-Rock/Fussion, through Prog-Folk, Electronic, Post-Rock/Experimental and Advant to full-blown, let's drag out the whole orchestra Symphonic. With a few notable exceptions, we group all these together within Prog-Metal because Metal forms the overriding content, yet all the other elements are there for the listening. Unfortunately the really difficult part at the moment is finding them. For example Ephel Duath produce some amazing Math Rock/Metal/Jazz-rock music, which is great, but come here looking for more bands of a similar flavour and you land in the middle of 500+ PM bands and leave none the wiser.

Very good point, I would be interested in checking out more extreme jazz-metal-avant whatever if it had its own category and I knew where to find it.

I think that at this point, because of the sheer number of bands in PM, a split like the one we had in Art Rock is inevitable. If we want the site to be a guide to people, having over 500 bands lumped together under the same umbrella is not going to be of any use to anyone. Of course, there will be endless debates on how to split the bands, what name to give them, and so on and so forth... Eventually, though, this will be achieved, and the site will be all the better for that - even if the naysayers, the enemies of PM, will start carrying on about the site being taken over by Metal.

Ghost Rider wrote: I think that at this point, because of the sheer number of bands in PM, a split like the one we had in Art Rock is inevitable. If we want the site to be a guide to people, having over 500 bands lumped together under the same umbrella is not going to be of any use to anyone. Of course, there will be endless debates on how to split the bands, what name to give them, and so on and so forth... Eventually, though, this will be achieved, and the site will be all the better for that - even if the naysayers, the enemies of PM, will start carrying on about the site being taken over by Metal.

The nay sayers will continue to say the site is being taken over buy metal whether or not anything happens, its just a good job that no-one with more than a couple of brain cells listens to them.

There is a numerous amount of sub-genres in prog-metal....I wonder what it would be split in to if it will be going to.

ProgBagel wrote: There is a numerous amount of sub-genres in prog-metal....I wonder what it would be split in to if it will be going to.

Edited by darqdean - October 09 2007 at 13:02

darqdean wrote: micky wrote: ProgBagel wrote: There is a numerous amount of sub-genres in prog-metal....I wonder what it would be split in to if it will be going to. sure.. .have fun http://www.proggnosis.com/GENRE_PMSGGuide.asp   Oooooo I want Sub-Genre Not Assigned .. I *love* those bands

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Ghost Rider wrote: I think that at this point, because of the sheer number of bands in PM, a split like the one we had in Art Rock is inevitable. If we want the site to be a guide to people, having over 500 bands lumped together under the same umbrella is not going to be of any use to anyone. Of course, there will be endless debates on how to split the bands, what name to give them, and so on and so forth... Eventually, though, this will be achieved, and the site will be all the better for that - even if the naysayers, the enemies of PM, will start carrying on about the site being taken over by Metal.

Great topic and good post.  Yes, I might even dig a bit deeper into PM myself if I had a better idea where the bands fell in terms of sound.

I've personally always felt that the very "metal" aspect of prog metal was its most limiting factor.  No matter how diverse a bands material is, if there is always a chugging, heavily distorted guitar, the sonic palette is going to limited.  Of course, I'm generalizing here, but that has been my experience with a lot of PM bands that I otherwise might have liked.  And I don't really need to imagine other instruments to appreciate what they are doing.  But the constant heavy distortion guitars of so many of these bands just gets old after a few songs for me.  There are, of course, always exceptions.

And I even like a lot of DT's work, and respect them even more.  I suspect that a lot of the bashing they receive has as much to do with their visibility and popularity as it does with the actual music (hey, the term "prog snob" was coined for a reason ).  I personally think the band has a good deal of musical integrity and is doing what they do because they love to do it.............not because they want to win awards and be on magazine covers.  But they are still far from my favorite band (maybe in my top 100........maybe).  My opinion on them, just like anyone else's, is just that, an opinion.  It has no bearing on the quality or integrity of their music.

Other PM bands I like are Pain of Salvation and Opeth.  And I agree about Indukti being the best current example of "progressive metal"  (though with the understanding that my knowledge of the genre is quite limited compared to how many bands their are).

So like PM or hate it, I think we have to accept that it is probably most responsible for prog remaining vital and important to a larger musical audience (larger than us geeks who like all these bands that 80%, or more, of the world has never even heard of )

Ghost Rider wrote: FruMp wrote: The main problem with people's perception of prog metal is in my view Dream Theatre -  they are a love them or hate them band and they happen to be the most well known prog metal band. I personally despise them because they are way too cheesy for my tastes and there are many people who feel the same but who dismiss the entire prog-metal genre because of it. In my opinion, this is at least in part true. However, as I stated in my initial post, the real problem lies in that small, seemingly inoffensive 'metal' word. I am quite sure most of the people who slam PM on this board have never really listened to anything but perhaps DT, but still feel entitled to say it doesn't belong here - which of course is extremely offensive to those people who work hard in order to find new, interesting, innovative bands to add to our DB.

As an aside to the M word (Metal); why is that a three piece prog band - bass drums & keyboards - can be said to play symphonic prog ? If their work is not 4 part classical construction, can we assume that it's a stylistic comparison rather than a black & white all or nothing deal. Harmonium are thus classified. I still find old "granolas" (quebec & acadian back to the land hippie types) who are bewildered by such a description of their old fave.

micky wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: micky wrote: MIke... it wasn't my intention to bash..... only express an opinion on why some do see PM .. or DT the way they do.  I'll drop it if you take offense.  This is a nice thread and I don't want to see it descend into mudsligging if people can't accept dissenting opinions ON the topic at hand.  Please, by all means go on. I just expressed my opinion about the recent trend to praise prog metal and bash DT-like bands simultaneously. It's something which I can't support, but I would not want to forbid it either. Opinions are free! there is probably something to be said for that.. for those simultaneous opinions may be hinting on a generally recognized opinion.  I'll toss  that  opinion out , that  DT may be great players... but they couldn't make good music together if their lives depended on it.. Of course  anyone who made a blanket statement like that over Prog Metal would be a fool. Prog Metal is much more than DT and their ilk. That was Raffaella's point.  Those who concentrate on displays of instrumental skill, like DT do... usually do, or can be argued may do,  so at the expense of good music.  That is what I think many see, who have problem with DT. .  Agree or not.. that is what some  people think.

Edited by The T - October 09 2007 at 16:54

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