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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 14:37
i have no idea why i havent looked into them, they sound exactly like the sort of thing i would like normally on the few tracks i have heard, but never bought an album
 
also, i find this with alot of people, theyve not listened to pineapple thief, they are a brilliant band [that i love], so if you havent heard them, perhaps you should check them out
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 14:53
In regards to the Italian prog, I agree that I don't think that racism is particularly behind the ignoring of this genre.  I know that many members of PA are more interested in the musical output than the lyrical output, but I tend to listen to the lyrics as much if not more than the music (not a musician, although I have always enjoyed time signature changes and what to my ears sounds like complicated music).  I enjoy instrumental music, but I tend to like it the way that Rush does it, where they add one or two instrumental songs to their albums.  I have a hard time listening to an album of nothing but instrumentals.  I tend to lose interest along the way.  I feel that the Italian Prog would have the same effect since I would have no idea what was being sung. 
 
Similar but different analogy is foreign films.  I really have never been interested in watching foreign films either.  If the characters are speaking in a non-English language than obviously I will have no idea what is going on.  Obviously, with close captioning if the dialogue is translated into English, I can at least read along, but this somehow loses something for me.  On the other hand, a famous example is the Godzilla movies which were all done in Japanese and overdubbed in English voices.  When I was younger I always enjoyed those movies, but the fact that the words didn't agree with the lips was always a bit distracting, and quite frankly kind of funny. 
 
Am I losing out with this attitude?  Probably.  Is it racist?  I don't think so or at least I hope not.  Is it because I am a dumb American that can only speak the one language that I was born and raised with?  Most definitely.  I had 3 years of Spanish classes, but I was never able to get past the idea of thinking of the word in English and then translating it into Spanish.  Also, I have much admiration for those that can speak fluently in multiple languages. 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:06
Both Le Orme and PFM have had albums released with the vocals re-recorded with English lyrics. I bought these back in 1973 and immediately loved them. However, I have since "replaced" them with the originals sung in Italian and they are so much better (especially on the PFM albums). Yes it is nice to know what they are singing about, but you can always use Google or Babelfish to translate the written lyrics.
 
I once questioned a German friend of mine why no German bands sing in their native tongue and his reply was "English is the language of Elvis and the Beatles, it is Rock'n'Roll".  Since then I have heard a number of bands with German lyrics and they sound like rock and roll to me Approve
 
And as to sub-titled films - they're great too. I would honestly say that half of my all time top ten films are subtitled.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:12

Hi Darqdean: 

Do you recall a couple weeks back in a poll regarding the best songwriters Ivan brought up that Peter Sinfield was commissioned to translate a non-English language band's lyrics into English and he completely re-wrote the lyrics.  Was this for one of these albums?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:13
yes please, RPI in Italian, if only because that's the language/lyric that was fitted to the music.. plus you get that wonderful grand quality


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:18
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hi Darqdean: 

Do you recall a couple weeks back in a poll regarding the best songwriters Ivan brought up that Peter Sinfield was commissioned to translate a non-English language band's lyrics into English and he completely re-wrote the lyrics.  Was this for one of these albums?
Yes, it was for PFMs Photos of Ghosts and The World Became The World. The 1975 album The Chocolate Kings was also in English, but I cannot remember who wrote the lyrics for that one. 
 
Le Orme's Felona E Sorona was given English lyrics by Peter Hammill (as Felona and Sorona)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:23
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

yes please, RPI in Italian, if only because that's the language/lyric that was fitted to the music.. plus you get that wonderful grand quality


I agree - you wouldn't want Nessun Dorma sung in any language other than Italian, so why not RPI?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2007 at 21:30
I feel that the Italian Prog would have the same effect since I would have no idea what was being sung.

Rushfan4, certainly I don't think you're racist to answer your question.  But you should reconsider this statement after giving 4 or 5 Italian classics a fair dozen spins or so.  What you will find is that after you get "used" to the sound of the language, it quickly just becomes another instrument in the band, but a lead instrument.  Eventually, it blends with the music and you hear only the quality and the passion of the vocal, you won't care than you can't understand the lyric.  I'm a huge Italian fan and I speak only Engish.  It's not a problem.  In fact, I almost enjoy foreign language music more now because I'm not distracted or hung up on content.  I'm enjoying the music and not worrying about the lyrics say. 

It will take a little work, yes.  You won't love it on your first play.  But once you get over the language thing, you open up a whole new world.  Any of us sell ourselves short in a big way if we only listen to music in our native language. 


...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 03:06
I guess I've ignored Genesis to a certain extent. They never struck a chord with me so to speak, atleast not a resounding one. I won't go as far to say they are overrated, but mainly because I haven't heard the vast majority of their output.
 
And as far as foreign languages in music go, sometimes I find they enhance the musical experience, eg. Anglagard. While great lyrics certainly add to a song, essentially music is seperate from the lyrics.
 
And I prefer authenticity in films, if I am watching a film about Spain, then it makes sense they are speaking Spanish. As they say, body language is 90% of language, so while you don't get the exact feel of what they are saying in the translation you can pick up quite easily what they mean.


Edited by Novalis - October 08 2007 at 03:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 05:01
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I feel that the Italian Prog would have the same effect since I would have no idea what was being sung.

Rushfan4, certainly I don't think you're racist to answer your question.  But you should reconsider this statement after giving 4 or 5 Italian classics a fair dozen spins or so.  What you will find is that after you get "used" to the sound of the language, it quickly just becomes another instrument in the band, but a lead instrument.  Eventually, it blends with the music and you hear only the quality and the passion of the vocal, you won't care than you can't understand the lyric.  I'm a huge Italian fan and I speak only Engish.  It's not a problem.  In fact, I almost enjoy foreign language music more now because I'm not distracted or hung up on content.  I'm enjoying the music and not worrying about the lyrics say. 

It will take a little work, yes.  You won't love it on your first play.  But once you get over the language thing, you open up a whole new world.  Any of us sell ourselves short in a big way if we only listen to music in our native language. 




I'd like to add that sometimes understanding the lyrics can be a definite drawback. This is one of the reasons why I've never been too much into Italian prog - the lyrics tend to be a bit on the overwrought side, though of course this is not the case for each and every band. The Seventies band Pholas Dactylus are musically very good, very much in the KC vein - yet, I can't listen to their "Concerto delle Menti" without laughing because of the lyrics. Micky knows what I'm talking about... He's seen my expression often enough whenever he puts on that album!LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 06:02
Bands & artists which I've completely ignored (but I'll probably check them out in the future):

Barclay James Harvest
The Moody Blues
Soft Machine
The Flower Kings
Giles, Fripp & Giles
Schicke, Fuhrs & Frohling
Manfred Mann
Traffic
Rick Van Der Linden (solo carrer)
Patrick Moraz (solo career)
Keith Emerson (only his solo career of course :-)
Visible Wind
Ayreon
Dream Theater
Gong
Frank Zappa
Marillion

Edited by ozzy_tom - October 08 2007 at 06:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 15:22
Gentle Giant.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 17:55
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I feel that the Italian Prog would have the same effect since I would have no idea what was being sung.

Rushfan4, certainly I don't think you're racist to answer your question.  But you should reconsider this statement after giving 4 or 5 Italian classics a fair dozen spins or so.  What you will find is that after you get "used" to the sound of the language, it quickly just becomes another instrument in the band, but a lead instrument.  Eventually, it blends with the music and you hear only the quality and the passion of the vocal, you won't care than you can't understand the lyric.  I'm a huge Italian fan and I speak only Engish.  It's not a problem.  In fact, I almost enjoy foreign language music more now because I'm not distracted or hung up on content.  I'm enjoying the music and not worrying about the lyrics say. 

It will take a little work, yes.  You won't love it on your first play.  But once you get over the language thing, you open up a whole new world.  Any of us sell ourselves short in a big way if we only listen to music in our native language. 


 
I'm not sure how much of my following comment is comparing apples to oranges, but I have never been a fan of opera, which is far as I am aware traditionally sung in Italian.  Admittedly I have never really heard anything but clips/advertisements, etc.. but it has never truly interested me.  I do have one Rick Wakeman album (I think Zodiaque) where he has an opera singer singing the songs (in English) which I don't really care for too much. 
 
This being said, I'm always willing to give something a shot, I am currently listening to the streaming Banco on PA.  The first two songs from Banco sounds pretty good.
 
Also, I was listening to a couple of the songs on the Supernatural Fairy Tales box set last night.  There is a version of PFM - Celebration.  Mostly instrumental with a small amount of vocals in English (not sure if originally recorded that way, or if this was an English re-recording).
 
 


Edited by rushfan4 - October 08 2007 at 17:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 17:57
I am gonna get quite a few rocks thrown at me for this...
 
GG
VDGG
Devin Townsend
Blind guardin
Anathema
 
...to name a few, but I want to get into all of them!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 18:03
 
A Stone's Throw
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 18:14
As much as I've loved almost all I've heard from RIO/Avant/Zheul I'm laregely ignorant to the vast amount of styles and bands in PA.
 
I have, however, loved:

Koenjihyakkei
Henry Cow
Frank Zappa
SGM
Hoyry-Kone
Discus
Estradasphere
Mr. Bungle
Fantomas
X Legged Sally
Univers Zero
Akineton Retard
John Zorn
 
Yet there's always more.
[QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss]
I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde!

Al di Meola.

[/QUOTE]

haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde
[/QUOTE]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 19:02
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I feel that the Italian Prog would have the same effect since I would have no idea what was being sung.

Rushfan4, certainly I don't think you're racist to answer your question.  But you should reconsider this statement after giving 4 or 5 Italian classics a fair dozen spins or so.  What you will find is that after you get "used" to the sound of the language, it quickly just becomes another instrument in the band, but a lead instrument.  Eventually, it blends with the music and you hear only the quality and the passion of the vocal, you won't care than you can't understand the lyric.  I'm a huge Italian fan and I speak only Engish.  It's not a problem.  In fact, I almost enjoy foreign language music more now because I'm not distracted or hung up on content.  I'm enjoying the music and not worrying about the lyrics say. 

It will take a little work, yes.  You won't love it on your first play.  But once you get over the language thing, you open up a whole new world.  Any of us sell ourselves short in a big way if we only listen to music in our native language. 


 
I'm not sure how much of my following comment is comparing apples to oranges, but I have never been a fan of opera, which is far as I am aware traditionally sung in Italian.  Admittedly I have never really heard anything but clips/advertisements, etc.. but it has never truly interested me.  I do have one Rick Wakeman album (I think Zodiaque) where he has an opera singer singing the songs (in English) which I don't really care for too much. 
 
This being said, I'm always willing to give something a shot, I am currently listening to the streaming Banco on PA.  The first two songs from Banco sounds pretty good.
 
Also, I was listening to a couple of the songs on the Supernatural Fairy Tales box set last night.  There is a version of PFM - Celebration.  Mostly instrumental with a small amount of vocals in English (not sure if originally recorded that way, or if this was an English re-recording).
 
 
 
I enjoyed Banco from the streaming songs on PA.  I have seen threads where people highly praised PFM's Per Un Amico and I believe that the high praise is well deserved.  That was a very good piece of music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 19:08
ClapClapClap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 19:16
How am I going to ignore these bands properly with threads like this? Confused
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 19:44
Originally posted by Drakk Drakk wrote:

As much as I've loved almost all I've heard from RIO/Avant/Zheul I'm laregely ignorant to the vast amount of styles and bands in PA.
 
I have, however, loved:

Koenjihyakkei
Henry Cow
Frank Zappa
SGM
Hoyry-Kone
Discus
Estradasphere
Mr. Bungle
Fantomas
X Legged Sally
Univers Zero
Akineton Retard
John Zorn
 
Yet there's always more.


Re : "I have loved" ... does that mean you no longer like them Wink-
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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