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Peter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:51
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



 
So if the relation of The Who with Prog is doubious, their relation with Punk is direct and undeniable, tghey were a MOD band this is not an opinion, is an historic fact.
 
Mod

Thumbs%20Up I agree with Ivan. I always saw Townshend & company as much more  forerunners of punk, not prog.

Besides the aforementioned historical mod scene which they attached themselves to, just listen to the music and attitude of early Who songs like My Generation or Pictures of Lily, etc.

Re "proper" punk in general, it was of course American (NYC) in origin, not English. Everyone always points to the Sex Pistols' Never Mind the Bollocks, but these guys, and this very influential album, were there first:

The%20image%20“http://blogs.indiewire.com/twhalliii/ramones.jpg”%20cannot%20be%20displayed,%20because%20it%20contains%20errors.

Along with early Who, I'd also point to Iggy and the Stooges as "proto-punk," any day. Just listen listen to 1969, or I wanna be Your Dog. Punk didn't just come out of nowhere.


Edited by Peter - September 01 2007 at 11:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2007 at 12:16
Before Iggy, there was the Velvet Underground, which reminds me of another artist who combines punk and prog tendencies, John Cale. Before the Velvets there were a lot of very raw garage rock bands that were ignored by the big record companies, and before that, some very punkish underground rockabilly. Punk has been around a long time, but it didn't get a genre defining name till after the Ramones toured England and set off a wave of do-it-yourself bands.

Edited by Easy Money - September 01 2007 at 12:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2007 at 12:43
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



 
So if the relation of The Who with Prog is doubious, their relation with Punk is direct and undeniable, tghey were a MOD band this is not an opinion, is an historic fact.
 
Mod

Thumbs%20Up I agree with Ivan. I always saw Townshend & company as much more  forerunners of punk, not prog.

Besides the aforementioned historical mod scene which they attached themselves to, just listen to the music and attitude of early Who songs like My Generation or Pictures of Lily, etc.

Re "proper" punk in general, it was of course American (NYC) in origin, not English. Everyone always points to the Sex Pistols' Never Mind the Bollocks, but these guys, and this very influential album, were there first:

The%20image%20“http://blogs.indiewire.com/twhalliii/ramones.jpg”%20cannot%20be%20displayed,%20because%20it%20contains%20errors.

Along with early Who, I'd also point to Iggy and the Stooges as "proto-punk," any day. Just listen listen to 1969, or I wanna be Your Dog. Punk didn't just come out of nowhere.
 
BTW Peter: The Who was comming to South America with Iggy who was gioing to open each and every concert, so it's obvious Roger and pete recognize the ties between them.
 
The tour was suspended, first due to Iggy health problems (rumors) and then The Who followed them, hope they come in October.
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 01 2007 at 12:43
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2007 at 13:50
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Before Iggy, there was the Velvet Underground, which reminds me of another artist who combines punk and prog tendencies, John Cale. Before the Velvets there were a lot of very raw garage rock bands that were ignored by the big record companies, and before that, some very punkish underground rockabilly. Punk has been around a long time, but it didn't get a genre defining name till after the Ramones toured England and set off a wave of do-it-yourself bands.

Excellent, informed -- and informative -- post, Easy Money.Thumbs%20Up

I've noticed your posts lately -- a newer member well worth the reading.Smile

Well, gotta go -- the sun is shining brightly, and those saturday chores are calling once more (plus, there's the siren song of the beer store)! Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2007 at 14:28
Thanks Peter, I love music, and I love details, obsessive compulsive probably. Anyway, I love beer also, great idea, mmmmm ... beeeeer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 07:48
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:


Thumbs%20Up I agree with Ivan. I always saw Townshend & company as much more  forerunners of punk, not prog. Besides the aforementioned historical mod scene which they attached themselves to, just listen to the music and attitude of early Who songs like My Generation or Pictures of Lily, etc.


Well, early songs were just that - early songs. Later on The Who continued to become very progressive, don't you think? I haven't heard of any punk band making Rock Opera with multilayer harmonies, synthetizers and stuff like that.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 11:58
Originally posted by meinmatrix meinmatrix wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:


Thumbs%20Up I agree with Ivan. I always saw Townshend & company as much more  forerunners of punk, not prog. Besides the aforementioned historical mod scene which they attached themselves to, just listen to the music and attitude of early Who songs like My Generation or Pictures of Lily, etc.


Well, early songs were just that - early songs. Later on The Who continued to become very progressive, don't you think? I haven't heard of any punk band making Rock Opera with multilayer harmonies, synthetizers and stuff like that.

ErmmWell yes -- "progressive" in the more literal sense of evolving in their music, but I've never seen them as a capital-P prog rock band -- simply a great, classic rock band who didn't stay in one place musically. (Like many, many artists with longer careers.)
 
(But "progressive" is largely a subjective concept anyway -- as I've long maintained. There's no way to definitively "nail down" the parameters of this supposed "genre," to the agreement of all. The term is more historical, and far from perfect as a word to describe something as varied as music. It's almost synonymous with "good" or even "complicated" -- though not all that is gathered under the prog umbrella is arguably "complicated" music. Due to its vague, subjective nature, the term and its scope re individual artists is ENDLESSLY argued over here! It's really up to each listener to decide, and order his or her albums accordingly.)
 
 
Damn fine band, and one of my lifetime faves, in any case! Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:02
Published in 1973, only "Quadrophenia" is strictly prog, so maybe it's sufficient to add them in prog related / proto-prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:10
Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Published in 1973, only "Quadrophenia" is strictly prog, so maybe it's sufficient to add them in prog related / proto-prog
 
Smile It's not prog to me, though Phillippe.
 
i see it as intelligent, classic hard rock -- I think "Who's Next" was more sophisticated, overall. Quadrophenia rocked harder than its predecessors, IMO.
 
Still, I can see why  a track like Love Reign O'er Me would be tagged as "prog" by many here -- but does the inclusion of strings make rock or pop prog? (if so, lots of 60s-70s soul and Motown must be prog....)Ermm
 
I still think "prog" is almost entirely subjective, often basically equating to "stuff we like." The scope of the term is vague in the extreme! (Thus basically pointless to argue about.)


Edited by Peter - September 02 2007 at 12:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 13:49
Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Published in 1973, only "Quadrophenia" is strictly prog, so maybe it's sufficient to add them in prog related / proto-prog
 
Yes i agree Phillipe, that was my point from the start, a band that released their only semi Prog album in 1973 should not be in Proto Prog but in Prog Related.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 16:08
I agree somewhat with Ivan.

Their most Progressive (note the capital 'P') record, Quadrophenia, came out in 1973, after prog was pretty well established.  Who's Next, in 1971, has some proggy-ness, but not enough to really count considering when it came out. 
Thus, the only contender for them being proto-prog would be Tommy, which aside from being a concept album, isn't really progressive at all. 
Finally, all their material before that is just typical 60s rocky nonsense.  Certainly not Proto.  (Except maybe Proto-punk, but that's already been covered). 

However, due to the importance of Quadrophenia and to a lesser extent Who's Next, they should definitely be in Prog Related. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2007 at 19:08
Why cant they have influenced both prog and punk?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2007 at 05:30
Originally posted by Zargus Zargus wrote:

Why cant they have influenced both prog and punk?
Check the above posts and you will see the whole discussion has come full circle again. What I think has been detirmined is that the Who are prog related and proto punk.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 04:15
Originally posted by A B Negative A B Negative wrote:

Why can't The Who be proto-punk and proto-prog?


Bingo. We have a winner. The Who are indeed both proto-punk and proto-prog. That's one of the many reasons they're such an amazing, and enormously influential, band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 04:20
Originally posted by Pawned Heart Pawned Heart wrote:

I agree somewhat with Ivan.

Their most Progressive (note the capital 'P') record, Quadrophenia, came out in 1973, after prog was pretty well established.  Who's Next, in 1971, has some proggy-ness, but not enough to really count considering when it came out. 
Thus, the only contender for them being proto-prog would be Tommy, which aside from being a concept album, isn't really progressive at all. 
Finally, all their material before that is just typical 60s rocky nonsense.  Certainly not Proto.  (Except maybe Proto-punk, but that's already been covered).  


You've apparently never listened to "A Quick One While He's Away" from 1966 or "Rael" from 1967. Perhaps you haven't heard their 1967 cover of Edvard Grieg's "In the Hall of the Mountain King", either, years before ELP produced works in a similar vein.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 04:26
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

^ Both bands albums come at the height of the prog-rock movement, so I don't know how either are proto



The Who and Black Sabbath? The Who were releasing music half a decade before Black Sabbath. The Who were releasing mini-operas in 1966 and 1967, years before the height of the prog rock movement. That's why they're proto-prog.
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