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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:43 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:44 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
I have created an own subgenre entitled Prog
Andaluz but it's rejected while we are still looking at subgenres like
Raga-/Indo-rock on Prog Archives, very confusing .. |
you've got (always had hahah) my support on this one...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:46 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:47 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Progressive is not the same as Prog Rock.
Jimi Hendrix was a minor influence on some Krautrock bands - but hardly influenced Prog Rock as a genre at all.
He's not even Prog-related.
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that man ^ knows what the hell he's talking about
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 18:57 |
Did you know that when Jimi lost his mother (alcoholic, destroyed liver) when he was 12, the guitar became a substitute. Even when he went to the toilet the guitar was with him and he also imitated every sound with his guitar.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:06 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Did you know that when Jimi lost his mother
(alcoholic, destroyed liver) when he was 12, the guitar became a
substitute. Even when he went to the toilet the guitar was with him and
he also imitated every sound with his guitar. |
Hendrix was a master.. and his influence even trickled down ....
I tried that with my first Rickenbacker... I ate, slept, even bathed
with her... how'd she repay me for all that love... got her neck broken
in a nasty fall... I was never quite the same afterward. My
playing suffered as welll ... or so I tell everyone
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:09 |
Poor you Micky, perhaps a misplaced childhood could have tributed to some magic !
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micky
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:15 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Poor you Micky, perhaps a misplaced childhood could have tributed to some magic ! |
hahahha that's true... I could have been the next Chris Squire... only a foot shorter and even more of a pain in the ass Well here's to normal childhoods everywhere ...they're not all that they are cracked up to be.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:23 |
Ok, so let's get back on topic!
erik neuteboom wrote:
Many progrock guitarplayers are influenced by the
late Jimi Hendrix, I presume these guitarplayers has put that influence
in their music so to me it sounds reasonable to conclude that Jimi
Hendrix was very influential to progrock ... |
I again ask you where you hear Hendrix in any Prog song. In all the
Prog I've heard, I haven't heard one single direct influence from
Hendrix. If you provide me with evidence that he was a major influence
on the developement of the classic Progressive Rock sound, I will
consider changing my mind.
The arguement you're using suggests that Hendrix is proto everything,
not only Prog. You say he has influenced practically every guitarist,
in that case you'd have to name him even as Proto-Pop (Pop, of course,
referring to post-1970 Pop) to some degree, as there are Pop guitarists
influenced by him. I'm sure one could somehow trace his influences as
far as rap or electronica or other guitarless genres with this
attitude. We need to draw the line somewhere.
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erik neuteboom
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Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 7659
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Posted: August 13 2006 at 05:35 |
First I have said "that Jimi influenced many progrock guitarplayers", not "practically every guitarist", that's quite a difference, Phileas!
The influence of Jimi Hendrix on progrock guitarplayers:
- the use of wah-wah
- creating unusual sounds with your guitar
- the use of the amplifiers for distortion
- the changes from rhythm guitar to solo
- the wild stage performances (from Keith Emerson to Gianni Leone from Il Balletto Di
Bronzo)
.. to name a few!
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 13 2006 at 07:20 |
Those points have, as far as I am concerned, little to do with the
compositional structures, the music itself, in Prog. It was also Eric
Clapton who first used distortion in popular music, and I'm sure he might have changed
between rhythm guitar and soloing before Hendrix did aswell. Regarding
the stage performances, I can hardly see what impact they have on the
music. The use of wah-wah can hardly be used as an arguement, because
the wah-wah pedal is an accessory for electric guitar. It's a bit like
saying that the first major artist using Fender amps in the early 50's
influenced prog, because Steve Howe used Fender amps. It doesn't really
work out in my mind.
You have, however, one point that is more reasonable than the others,
the one about Hendrix influencing people to create strange sounds with
the guitar. However, during that time, there was much psychedelic
experimentation in music, and I don't think Hendrix is the sole source.
I also think that this arguement suggests that we could also
consider Electric Blues artists of the '50s such as Muddy Waters or
B.B. King as Proto-Prog, since they often used extensive soloing on the
guitar in their music, a form of playing that is also found in Prog.
Edited by Philéas - August 13 2006 at 07:23
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mystic fred
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Joined: March 13 2006
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Posted: August 13 2006 at 08:13 |
Although I would not describe Jimi Hendrix as Prog, "Electric Ladyland" comes very close (1983 - a merman i will turn to be), he was a very progressive musician technically and in the studio, he knew about distortion being a fan of Eric Clapton (he was chuffed to find Eric was a big Hendrix fan!) and visited Jim Marshall's shop, where Clapton bought his famous "Bluesbreaker" combo, used to good effect on the "Beano" album. If at all Jimi could be included in a Prog-related sub-genre called "Blues-Prog", but things are quite complicated as it is!!!
Original 1968 UK sleeve for "Electric Ladyland" - Jimi hated it!!!
Edited by mystic fred - August 13 2006 at 08:26
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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User123abc
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: August 13 2006 at 17:16 |
Anyone remember Robert Fripp saying that he imagined King Crimson to be 'what Hendrix would sound like playing Bartok.' Hard to say there wasn't some influence.
But then again, by that logic, anyone important in developing the blues tradition could also be considered influential...
So I guess this is just trivia :-)
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Progressive??
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 93
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Posted: August 13 2006 at 21:35 |
There is a book about progressive rock (I don´t remeber the name) that said trhat Jimi's music was a really important part in the foundation of Progressive rock. In fact, Jimi was part of what in that book was called: "first wave", along with Procol Harum, the nice, and others
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:25 |
User123abc wrote:
Anyone remember Robert Fripp saying that he imagined King Crimson to be
'what Hendrix would sound like playing Bartok.' Hard to say there
wasn't some influence. |
That's not influence, that's just a comparison Rober Fripp made between
his and Hendrix's music. He didn't mention being influenced by Hendrix,
and I don't hear much Hendrix influence in his music anyway.
Progressive?? wrote:
There is a book about progressive rock (I don´t remeber the name)
that said trhat Jimi's music was a really important part in the
foundation of Progressive rock. In fact, Jimi was part of what in that
book was called: "first wave", along with Procol Harum, the nice, and
others |
Do try to find out the name of that book, I'd be very interesting to read it.
As far as I know, no one considered Hendrix to be part of the early
Progressive Rock movement during the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Hendrix played Psychedelic Rock and Electric Blues. I can accept him
being called a "Progressive Blues" artist, but not a Progressive Rock
one. I accept that he might have had some influence on Prog, but as far
as I can hear when I listen through the classic Prog records, there
isn't enough of Hendrix in there to justify his inclusion as a
Proto-Prog artist on this site.
Again, if we ever were to have a Progressive Blues category on this
site, I'd accept his introduction into it. However, as we don't yet
have that category, I think that Jimi Hendrix should be left out until
it's implemented.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 11:47 |
I think the whole debate boils down to
1 Being Progressive
2 Playing Progressive music
Hendrix was Progressive in the way he changed guitar playing, but then so was Eddie Van Halen when he introduced two hand tapping to the masses.
But both of them didn´t really play Progressive music.
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 12:22 |
WaywardSon wrote:
I think the whole debate boils down to
1 Being Progressive
2 Playing Progressive music
Hendrix was Progressive in the way he changed guitar playing, but then so was Eddie Van Halen when he introduced two hand tapping to the masses.
But both of them didn´t really play Progressive music. |
Amen, brother! At last someone with some sense...
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 12:26 |
Absolutely not, Hendrix was built off of show styles that musicians have little appreciation for. Hendrix never did anything that was "progressive" he was just a blues guitarist with an edge.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 13:35 |
Oh, just a blues gitarist with an edge? I can remember me an album Electric Ladyland on which he blends several styles, above that he has played not only blues but also rock, psychedelia and some great varied work on the acoustic guitar !
In my opinion Jimi Hendrix was already 'progressive minded' in his mother's womb !
Edited by erik neuteboom - August 14 2006 at 13:35
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 14 2006 at 19:06 |
Perhaps he was progressive as a Blues guitarist, but I standby my
opinion that he hasn't had a sufficient influence on Prog to be
included as Proto-Prog. Like I said though, he'd fit in a Progressive
Blues category, but since we don't have such a category yet, I think
it's better to leave him off the site completely. We can't have all the
Psychedelic bands and artists of the late '60s here, can we?
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