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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 10:25

Originally posted by Velvetclown Velvetclown wrote:

Hot Dog sigod 

I thank you.

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 10:40
My pleasure. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 14:27
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Svein-Frode Svein-Frode wrote:

Ever heard Hawkwind? The Beatles? The Rolling Stones? Miles Davis? 

Sure I have, and as for the Beatles and the Stones, I would say that their music has suffered, not to mention how those Stones guys look and play now a days. Give any of them a score by Bach and their head would be spinning into infinity... Popularity among 14 year old girls isn't how you measure good art. Anyone who knows how to play an instrument can play a pop tune, even under the influence.

As for dear old Miles, he admitted himself that his playing suffered over the years because of his introduction to various hard drugs. Though there are some highlights after the Hard Bop period (ending in the mid 60s), they are few and far between. Miles stayed alive because he choose the best talent to join him on stage and in studio, not because he used drugs.

Just about anything you put into your body then... I would stop eating and drinking if I were you; all that oxygen and hydrogen in water goes to every single part of your body - especially your brain...

I'll eat and drink anything that doesn't push my body greatly out of balance. That means avoiding large amounts of fat, sugar and salt, in addition to various preservatives that are found in supermarket food. I think you might have missed a page or two when reading Physiology in school...

Generally you have to be susceptible to mental illnesses in the first place, but serious abuse can do this, of course. One of the major reasons for depression is abuse of food, alcohol and drugs. So you want food and alcohol to be made illegal too??

The least understood part of our body is the brain, and while there is some evidence that certain illnesses are inherited, most can be developed by anyone, especially by using drugs in a period where your brain has other problems (types of stress, mild depression etc.) As for alcohol, I couldn't care less if it was banned. It wouldn't affect my life at all to give up a glass of good wine... I'm actually able to have fun and talk to people sober, even pick up girls... As for food, it should be a heavily restricted and regulated commodity. A visit to WHO will tell you all you need to know, lets just say that te food industry will label anything food as long as they can make a buck. It's no secret that the epedemia of cancer, diabetes and cardio vascular related illnesses are heavily related to food.

What people do to their body is their own responsibility, but anyone who supports drugs supports crime and criminals, thus deserving the same fate as supporters of death and destruction in society...  *cough BULLsh*t*

Whatever, and from the cow we get milk and coffee...

You can't get a little bit pregnant... There is no controlled use of drugs unless it is made and distributed by professionals. You said it!!!  Drugs need to be controlled! The big problem is that they are NOT. THAT is what leads to the crime and criminals.

So we should legalize murder and put it into a system so we could avoid calling killers criminals. Drugs need to be controlled because all use have side effects, even legal prescripted drugs. Again I will recommend the Andrew Solomon book which might enlighten you. It describes in detail the extremely demaning process of drugging people and all the resources needed to make it somewhat safe, though its always a dangerous experiment since people often react differently to the same drug.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 15:01
Originally posted by Svein-Frode Svein-Frode wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Svein-Frode Svein-Frode wrote:

Ever heard Hawkwind? The Beatles? The Rolling Stones? Miles Davis? 

Sure I have, and as for the Beatles and the Stones, I would say that their music has suffered, Which track by the Beatles "suffered?" - they're all great, except for "Rocky Racoon". I'll agree on the Stones, because the point I am making is that it's abuse that's wrong, not the drugs themselves.  not to mention how those Stones guys look and play now a days. Give any of them a score by Bach and their head would be spinning into infinity... Can't argue with that - but Bach sure ain't Rock'n'Roll. BTW, are you familiar with Berlioz? Popularity among 14 year old girls isn't how you measure good art. You could use it as one way of measuring it, if you wanted. You can use any yardstick you like to measure good art. .Anyone who knows how to play an instrument can play a pop tune, even under the influence. A pop tune, maybe. Not any pop tune

 

As for dear old Miles, he admitted himself that his playing suffered over the years because of his introduction to various hard drugs. Yes, that's my point on abuse.  Though there are some highlights after the Hard Bop period (ending in the mid 60s), they are few and far between. Miles stayed alive because he choose the best talent to join him on stage and in studio, not because he used drugs.

Just about anything you put into your body then... I would stop eating and drinking if I were you; all that oxygen and hydrogen in water goes to every single part of your body - especially your brain...

I'll eat and drink anything that doesn't push my body greatly out of balance. That means avoiding large amounts of fat, sugar and salt, in addition to various preservatives that are found in supermarket food. I think you might have missed a page or two when reading Physiology in school... No - I didn't do physiology. Anyway, not everyone is microscopically careful about what they eat - you can go too far in that direction.

Generally you have to be susceptible to mental illnesses in the first place, but serious abuse can do this, of course. One of the major reasons for depression is abuse of food, alcohol and drugs. Abuse IS the problem, not the drugs. Your argument implies that if there were no guns, there would be no killing. So you want food and alcohol to be made illegal too??

The least understood part of our body is the brain, and while there is some evidence that certain illnesses are inherited, most can be developed by anyone, especially by using drugs in a period where your brain has other problems (types of stress, mild depression etc.) As for alcohol, I couldn't care less if it was banned. It wouldn't affect my life at all to give up a glass of good wine... I'm actually able to have fun and talk to people sober, even pick up girls... As for food, it should be a heavily restricted and regulated commodity. A visit to WHO will tell you all you need to know, lets just say that te food industry will label anything food as long as they can make a buck. It's no secret that the epedemia of cancer, diabetes and cardio vascular related illnesses are heavily related to food.

Woah! My Great-Grandad lived to be 99 - and he just ate the good food that the lord provided. Let's not get hysterical, eh

What people do to their body is their own responsibility, but anyone who supports drugs supports crime and criminals, thus deserving the same fate as supporters of death and destruction in society...  *cough BULLsh*t*

Whatever, and from the cow we get milk and coffee...

You can't get a little bit pregnant... There is no controlled use of drugs unless it is made and distributed by professionals. You said it!!!  Drugs need to be controlled! The big problem is that they are NOT. THAT is what leads to the crime and criminals.

So we should legalize murder and put it into a system so we could avoid calling killers criminals. What a silly argument!! You would equate killing someone with smoking a spliff?  Drugs need to be controlled YES! - I said that! because all use have side effects, even legal prescripted drugs. YES! - and non-prescribed drugs like alcohol, caffiene and aspirin. Again I will recommend the Andrew Solomon book which might enlighten you. Thanks, but I reached "Enlightenment" on this topic many moons ago - and I'm fairly well read on the subject. There are loads of books out there, some more balanced than others (hint). It describes in detail the extremely demaning process of drugging people and all the resources needed to make it somewhat safe, though its always a dangerous experiment since people often react differently to the same drug. You said it - even aspirin. Did you know that it's easier to overdose on aspirin than on heroin?

Taking any illegal drug is like playing Russian roulette, mainly because of the fact that drugs are not controlled. Where there is a high demand and shortage of ready cash, unscrupulous dealers will sell anything - as you said. THAT is why drugs should be controlled properly. Not to advocate their use, but to help those people weaker than you and I who succumb to temptation and addiction for whatever personal and psychological reasons.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 15:31

Try listening to Todd Rundgren's "A Wizard/A TRue Star", "Todd", and "Initiation", as well as the first 2 Utopia albums. I'm pretty sure i read that Todd was high when he recorded these.  He was about taking drugs to raise your state of mind.

Getting high is not a superficial pleasure, it is about experiencing a state of mind which you can already reach without drugs.  It has worked from my own experience and i don't need to get high to get the same experience when listeing to music without it.  You relise how far the musical experience can go. You experience in what i consider the actual state of mind that the artist you are currently listeing to is experiencing. I too learned ALOT about myself and life/music in these states of mind.

Other good records to toke to:

Todd Rundgren - Healing (listen to Healing Parts 1-3, an amazing experience) and the afore mentioned titles

Virtually any Pink Floyd Album the best being Animals

All yes albums from "yes" to "yesshows", the abloute best being "RELAYER"!!!

All that is prog.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 15:57

Gopher it...

smoker



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2004 at 17:43

Sandwiches definitely should be criminalized. Look what they did to Mama Cass' music! Not to mention Elvis' fatal peanut butter and banana overdose.

And contrary to popular opinion, we lost Jimi Hendrix choking on a pastrami and rye...Jim Morrison should have gone to rehab for egg salad! When will people learn that it's the deli owners that are destroying today's youth!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2004 at 03:36
I feel that smoking hash has a really determining effect on one's perception of art. You allow yourself to become more at one with whatever you are focusing on. I've listened to several prog albums whilst smoking, and it sort of takes away the innate filter for all the beauty that surrounds me, and let's me take it all in at once. The sense of understanding and oneness with the music is really intense. Furthermore, I feel alchohol only dulls the senses and diminishes the listening experience, and besides that, it can make you dance to otherwise intolerable music. The vague memory of myself busting out dance moves to a Justin Timberlake song in a club, still lingers in my consciousness... and it really hurts
Hash=good, alchohol=bad. Consider this metaphor: Listening to prog sober is like drinking a large soda with a thin straw, whereas with the influnce of some herbs, you toss away the straw and drink straight from the cup.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2004 at 07:47
You think alcohol is bad? I'm still trying to forget some of the things that I've danced to under MDMA ("come into my planet soul...setcha freeeee....setcha freee")
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2004 at 23:58

for the advanced experience
you need
Mescaline/Hashish
Pilsner Urquell (pasteurized beer)

listen to Krautrock
Tangerine Dream - Force Majuere
Cluster - Zuckerzeit
Ashra - Best of
Conrad Schnitzler - Ballet Statique
Edgar Froese - Stuntman
are a few suggestion

music becomes color, but watch out for the horned
wonder, could visit as an alien imposter!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 08:52
I'm gonna try to stay outta this one...but drugs + Pink Floyd =

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 10:08
Music gets me high enough.Nowadays.But I have to admit that I took tons of drugs and at that times music seemed to be better.However,I'm over that S..T.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 10:22

Most people who do drugs do them to appear cool.

Did them myself at Uni and had a fair bit of blow since (none since i gave up ciggies though). It is a game-beer, birds and blow. Got to do them or you're not cool.Anyone who thinks rock artists are making their best music whilst stoned out their minds are kidding themselves. If the music was designed to be enjoyed whilst stoned it would have been composed, recorded and mastered that way!Wink




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 11:03
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Most people who do drugs do them to appear cool.

Did them myself at Uni and had a fair bit of blow since (none since i gave up ciggies though). It is a game-beer, birds and blow. Got to do them or you're not cool.Anyone who thinks rock artists are making their best music whilst stoned out their minds are kidding themselves. If the music was designed to be enjoyed whilst stoned it would have been composed, recorded and mastered that way!Wink

Yeah, forget about feeling really good or having an addiction, it's the fashionable nature of drugs that makes them so darn irresistable

Is anyone saying that music should be made or listened to on drugs? I don't think so- it just happened that some music is made under the influence (for better or worse) and a heck of a lot of music is enjoyed under the influence (for better or worse). If it weren't for speed and other ilicit stimulants, for instance, a huge portion of the bands wouldn't have been quite so tirelessly prolific in the studio or on tour- The Beatles themselves were notorious speed freaks in the early days especially.

One might as well argue that you shouldn't use alcohol while participating in the dating ritual. Sure, there's been some drunken hook-ups that probably shouldn't have happened, but more than a few of us owe our very existence in some part to a few drinks.

If you're against it or don't need it, fine; more power to ya. But don't kid yourself that drugs aren't a major part of rock and roll.

"If there's sex and drugs, I guess I could do without the rock and roll." - from Spinal Tap

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 11:11
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Most people who do drugs do them to appear cool.

Did them myself at Uni and had a fair bit of blow since (none since i gave up ciggies though). It is a game-beer, birds and blow. Got to do them or you're not cool.Anyone who thinks rock artists are making their best music whilst stoned out their minds are kidding themselves. If the music was designed to be enjoyed whilst stoned it would have been composed, recorded and mastered that way!Wink

Yeah, forget about feeling really good or having an addiction, it's the fashionable nature of drugs that makes them so darn irresistable

Is anyone saying that music should be made or listened to on drugs? I don't think so- it just happened that some music is made under the influence (for better or worse) and a heck of a lot of music is enjoyed under the influence (for better or worse). If it weren't for speed and other ilicit stimulants, for instance, a huge portion of the bands wouldn't have been quite so tirelessly prolific in the studio or on tour- The Beatles themselves were notorious speed freaks in the early days especially.

One might as well argue that you shouldn't use alcohol while participating in the dating ritual. Sure, there's been some drunken hook-ups that probably shouldn't have happened, but more than a few of us owe our very existence in some part to a few drinks.

If you're against it or don't need it, fine; more power to ya. But don't kid yourself that drugs aren't a major part of rock and roll.

"If there's sex and drugs, I guess I could do without the rock and roll." - from Spinal Tap

I think some of the replies here and in other threads suggest things like "you should try such or sucha album whilst high" and they are saying "look at me I am cool because I have done this"

I think you are being a tad ingenuous.

Smile




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 11:53
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Most people who do drugs do them to appear cool.

Did them myself at Uni and had a fair bit of blow since (none since i gave up ciggies though). It is a game-beer, birds and blow. Got to do them or you're not cool.Anyone who thinks rock artists are making their best music whilst stoned out their minds are kidding themselves. If the music was designed to be enjoyed whilst stoned it would have been composed, recorded and mastered that way!Wink

Yeah, forget about feeling really good or having an addiction, it's the fashionable nature of drugs that makes them so darn irresistable

Is anyone saying that music should be made or listened to on drugs? I don't think so- it just happened that some music is made under the influence (for better or worse) and a heck of a lot of music is enjoyed under the influence (for better or worse). If it weren't for speed and other ilicit stimulants, for instance, a huge portion of the bands wouldn't have been quite so tirelessly prolific in the studio or on tour- The Beatles themselves were notorious speed freaks in the early days especially.

One might as well argue that you shouldn't use alcohol while participating in the dating ritual. Sure, there's been some drunken hook-ups that probably shouldn't have happened, but more than a few of us owe our very existence in some part to a few drinks.

If you're against it or don't need it, fine; more power to ya. But don't kid yourself that drugs aren't a major part of rock and roll.

"If there's sex and drugs, I guess I could do without the rock and roll." - from Spinal Tap

I think some of the replies here and in other threads suggest things like "you should try such or sucha album whilst high" and they are saying "look at me I am cool because I have done this"

I think you are being a tad ingenuous.

Smile

Oh, admittedly! But only as a response in kind

Honestly, I've never personally experienced a big peer-pressure or fashionable motivation in my history with drugs. I'm sure I've met people because of drugs that I wouldn't have met otherwise, but that doesn't strike me as a bad thing- we find lifelong friends in any number of ways, and in stranger circumstances than casual weed use. The main social effect I remember from those days was from people who I assumed to be friends suddenly deciding that part of their newfound refusal of drugs included dropping me as a friend because I was still doing them- despite the fact that I've never required or suggested drugs as a condition of my friendship. I'm not talking about people who needed to 'break the chain of addiction' to survive...we're talking weed here, a substance that never causes physical dependance.

But I do recognize that it plays a big part for a number of people who are more concerned with their social image, so in that sense I totally understand your point (despite my previous ingenuousness...or is that ingenuity? no, that's something else ). From what I understand, your experience with coke is not at all uncommon (though maybe less seen now than, say, the 70s or 80s ). But in that case drugs are no different than anything else you do to 'fit in' (except for potentially more serious consequences). If drugs were simply a social phenomenon, they wouldn't be such a big issue- people would drop drugs like they drop any trendy phase. It's the fact that people enjoy the feeling they provide, and/or develop a physical or mental need for them, that makes drugs such a persistent issue.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 12:03
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Most people who do drugs do them to appear cool.

Did them myself at Uni and had a fair bit of blow since (none since i gave up ciggies though). It is a game-beer, birds and blow. Got to do them or you're not cool.Anyone who thinks rock artists are making their best music whilst stoned out their minds are kidding themselves. If the music was designed to be enjoyed whilst stoned it would have been composed, recorded and mastered that way!Wink

Yeah, forget about feeling really good or having an addiction, it's the fashionable nature of drugs that makes them so darn irresistable

Is anyone saying that music should be made or listened to on drugs? I don't think so- it just happened that some music is made under the influence (for better or worse) and a heck of a lot of music is enjoyed under the influence (for better or worse). If it weren't for speed and other ilicit stimulants, for instance, a huge portion of the bands wouldn't have been quite so tirelessly prolific in the studio or on tour- The Beatles themselves were notorious speed freaks in the early days especially.

One might as well argue that you shouldn't use alcohol while participating in the dating ritual. Sure, there's been some drunken hook-ups that probably shouldn't have happened, but more than a few of us owe our very existence in some part to a few drinks.

If you're against it or don't need it, fine; more power to ya. But don't kid yourself that drugs aren't a major part of rock and roll.

"If there's sex and drugs, I guess I could do without the rock and roll." - from Spinal Tap

I think some of the replies here and in other threads suggest things like "you should try such or sucha album whilst high" and they are saying "look at me I am cool because I have done this"

I think you are being a tad ingenuous.

Smile

Oh, admittedly! But only as a response in kind

Honestly, I've never personally experienced a big peer-pressure or fashionable motivation in my history with drugs. I'm sure I've met people because of drugs that I wouldn't have met otherwise, but that doesn't strike me as a bad thing- we find lifelong friends in any number of ways, and in stranger circumstances than casual weed use. The main social effect I remember from those days was from people who I assumed to be friends suddenly deciding that part of their newfound refusal of drugs included dropping me as a friend because I was still doing them- despite the fact that I've never required or suggested drugs as a condition of my friendship. I'm not talking about people who needed to 'break the chain of addiction' to survive...we're talking weed here, a substance that never causes physical dependance.

But I do recognize that it plays a big part for a number of people who are more concerned with their social image, so in that sense I totally understand your point (despite my previous ingenuousness...or is that ingenuity? no, that's something else ). From what I understand, your experience with coke is not at all uncommon (though maybe less seen now than, say, the 70s or 80s ). But in that case drugs are no different than anything else you do to 'fit in' (except for potentially more serious consequences). If drugs were simply a social phenomenon, they wouldn't be such a big issue- people would drop drugs like they drop any trendy phase. It's the fact that people enjoy the feeling they provide, and/or develop a physical or mental need for them, that makes drugs such a persistent issue.

Smile

I agree with 99% of what you say Jim but it seems self-evident that most people do drop drugs after a relatively short while ( ie when they leave college and go get a job, and "grow up".) Let's be honest drugs only become uncool if you get addicted to them.Surely the vast majority of people dont get hooked....but that's another argument for another day.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 12:13
Don't call me Jim!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 12:15

Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

Don't call me Jim!!!!

Whoops,not even a typo!Embarrassed

Ouch




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2004 at 12:29

no prob...happens all the time

"Jamie" is more acceptable, all my Irish relatives do it. Then again, several of them took me to the pub as a toddler, so maybe they're not such a good example of model behavior...

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