future of prog |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
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Hi, I lived with a band for 6 months and played with them a wee bit while learning. They were specially good, doing their own material which the bass player and the drummer had written, and not bother with any other anything. The bass player was inspired by Roger Waters and Rush ... but the concept piece that he had written, was over an hour long and was special and had some neat moments. They stuck to it for the most part, and you could see the value of getting to know their own material, instead of the stuff that you hear at the Hotel circuit in America, which is mostly top ten ... the musicians involved are not likely to go very far. When they did not get the reception they wanted one time, some members of the band kinda gave up and decided they needed some covers to get the audience going. The band was over 3 months later! If you had been around so many writers, as I was when young, you would notice a very distinct difference which is the mark of an "artist" ... and many folks, stood up for themselves with a very strong palate and discussion about talent. Gabriel Garcia Marquez might have read others, and been influenced by someone else ... but he knew the secret to his work, was his own vision. Pablo Neruda is the same thing, and ended up, inadvertently becoming a voice for some freedoms that were being taken away in Chile. Albert Camus, even went so far as to say that he hated most folks that thought they were writers, and all they were doing was creating pulp fiction. Jean Genet, turned things around some so one could not really tell what he was about in reality ... but by the time you read "Our Lady of Flowers" and a couple of other things, you realize quickly that he is intentionally throwing a finger at a lot of machinations and commerciality of it all. The hard part of a lot of rock music, and its attempt to make it, is more about the success of the band financially, than it is about any artistic definition of their work ... and we forget how much the folks that we love and are inspired by that became known as "progressive" ... in fact did not exactly do covers in a bar. There are always exceptions, of course, but Jimi went out to blow the whole thing ... the writing was great but the voice that created it did not help the song come alive ... and Jimi's version became the watchtower for us to realize how important some things can be and how much it mattered and was valuable. Again, influences are fine, but if you wanted to make it in the world with a band, you would be doing your own material and make sure that you could improve on it, to be noticed ... go ahead and do covers and see if anyone is going to pay attention ... to me that is the definition of a musician or an artist. The musician gives in to things around him/her and the social everything ... the artist? Nope ... I paint what I see. I play what I hear. I write what my movie shows. It becomes the intuition, rather than what we, as FANS, think it should be.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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Ah, the playful pleasures of being a groupie. |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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If I try to like music, I fail. I enjoy it, but I'm not that keen on it overall (instrumentally it's quite faithful), but it seemed to be relevant to King Crimson776's commentary. Mind you, I have only listened to it a couple of times, (I have listened to the KC original many times). There are some really interesting and creative takes on other's music (adaptations) but this one not so much imo. It's skilful however. By the way, some share their disdain for covers/ variations, but there are many that I love and find worthwhile in their own right. |
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11603 |
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I prefer Todd Rundgren's version.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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^ That's great. I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm partial to Caballero Reynaldo's "21st Century Country Man" off his 2015 album, In The Lounge of the Naldo King.
Edited by Logan - April 16 2024 at 15:25 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21157 |
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^ As I am partial to Shining's interpretation:
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
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Hi, Actually, two of us worked in the same place, in a house of pies and bakery. We turned the garage into a studio.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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Ah, very cool. It rather made my silly associative brain imagine, in part, a garage band version of Premiata Forneria Marconi (Award-winning Marconi Bakery). |
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Valdez1
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2024 Location: Walla Walla Wa Status: Offline Points: 351 |
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Now that's re-imagined!!... Killer!
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Stigfzm
Forum Newbie Joined: April 10 2024 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Well, actually prog is not the only case. In fact, the whole genre of rocking music is definite to face the same problem of exposure. We can put another musical genre as a comparison: Classical Music. As Sir Paul McCartney once opined in his days in the Beatles during an interview, "I think rock n' roll is today's classical music", he just embraced the predominance of rock music in the market over the real classical music at that time and admitted the popularity of classical music before that of rock. However, I think, there's an undertone there: rock music will face the same promblem of classical music----- being dated. Just look at sales, you will see the Asian groups and pop electrical songs heading the hit list for a long time. There is certain rock groups which gain popularity just for a while, however. The whole rock genre has already experienced lack of exposure and low sales. It appears to be secondary in the music market. Just like classical music during the 1950s and 1960s.
And the classical 70s prog, obviously, is among the lowest of low in the hierachy of rock due to its issues like being too difficult to start with and being too bourgeois or elite-like. What's more, I think prog's mission to influence musicians has come to a halt these days. When we talk about 70s music, definitely, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, ELP are big names we can't avoid whose influence was still carried into the 80s when Talking Heads, Marillion, Rush stepped up to the forefronts whith their legacies. (Btw: We can also make a bold claim: no prog in 70s, no Bohemian Rhapsody.) Math rock, opera rock, to name a few, all inherit prog's boldness in blending different musc elements. Even Kurt Kobain received KC's power of Red and started the legend we all know. But, now just tell me, besides new prog, have any famous rock stars during the two decades after 2000 specially mentioned 70s prog as the greatest impact and gained predominance over pops or massive popularity Dream Theatre, Tool, and the likes once had who can ascertain their roots back in 70s? Pretty rare. And the strak reality is, many new young fans are drawn to prog simply because of the publicity of JoJo's Bizarre Adventures instead of modern rock bands. There's another fact. I keep in contact with many rock fans. Some of them like prog but hate Keith Emerson especially. Their thinking is very simple: who the hell will be insterested in rock interpretation of classical songs that nobody actually listens to or even cares, which will take back to my aforementioned point on rock and classical music. But, what people must admit is that if someone delves into quintessential rocking music, rather than electrical pop sh*ts, those big names of prog are inevitable. They just stand there. Nobody can circumvent. The Beatles designed a blueprint of rock music and prog was one of the most outstanding pioneers to reinvent it. Their musicianship decides their characters: they are not postitutes to give pleasure, rather the cynical Diogenēs to push limits, explore boundaries. So, that is why when ELP started to embrace extravagance during mid 70s, their doom was inevitiable. And all classical prog bands died soon. Still, new tech and interpretation of music helps to inspire kids to develop new prog of thier own. They put a completely different complexion over prog and ensure its continuity. Prog is not going to be doomed in the future. It just lives in another form we might not be familiar with.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
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I resemble that remark! I have a Mellotron app on my iPad that is drop-dead AMAZING!! In fact, it is the same one that Fripp & Company used onstage when I saw their "An Evening with the Elements" show at Chicago's Vic Theater! It is an amazing time for making music, but just making squeaky little sounds is not enough. There has to be a modicum of talent behind it, honesty, and dedication to craft. The future of prog is secure. Edited by cstack3 - April 17 2024 at 00:20 |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21157 |
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^ Yes, some people who who frown upon the new digital tools would be quite surprised if they knew that many of their favorite artists from the 60s/70s are embracing them. It's MUCH easier to make (as in record/mix/master) great music nowadays, and there are many more musicians doing it. This means that there are a lot of mediocre releases (since not everyone is talented), but also many awesome ones. Now we only need tools to find the hidden gems
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alainPP
Forum Groupie Joined: January 19 2020 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Hello,
I come back to this major post:
prog has been dead since the advent of punk, then thanks to Marillion and Twelfth Night it was reborn from its ashes to return to the beginning of grunge...
In fact, it's more of a sound that has evolved over time in my opinion, a sound that means that today we can love the sounds of the 70s if we open up to those of the 2020 decade, based on metal, folk and post rock.
Otherwise rock will definitely be dead (go listen to Pure Reason Revolution, Leprous and Kyros for example to understand that energy is also needed in today's prog)
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le prog rend jeune
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
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Oh, I don't know....ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" was one long cover, yes? Sometimes a cover can be played progressively, like Yes' cover of "America" by Simon & Garfunkel. That was recorded on the upswing of their progressive evolution as a band, not on the decline. I rarely hear young musicians playing covers, except for either practice or for kicks. I do notice quite a bit of innovation going on, and experimentation. To make way for the young, the old gotta die.
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
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Nice reply! Don't forget, our "heroes" had to record quite a few "mediocre" releases before they hit paydirt with LPs like CTTE, LTIA, Foxtrot and so forth. Thanks to this website, I find quite a few gems, hidden or in plain sight, in music. Some of the new prog from Scandinavia is very impressive for example! I wonder if the new King Crimson clone "Beat" is going to make some original music? I wish they had selected Michael Keneally instead of Steve Vai. I saw Keneally solo over Fripp's Soundscapes in concert, he was brilliant!! We'll see!
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14728 |
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"It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future." (Niels Bohr)
I say the world is heterogeneous and will still be. Cultural unification and diversification are going on at the same time. Certain music may survive through small minorities who are interested, while the big business will go elsewhere, at it has already done for a long time. Some of these minorities will die out, some won't (it won't help that the generations who saw prog taking off will vanish, but we can be rather optimistic about somebody carrying on the torch). The old prog rock vs. progressive discussion is also important here, but actually to some extent both sides of the coin may survive, classical 70s prog rock may continue having some small but dedicated following, and the innovative part of the younger generations will progress, but chances are they will not necessarily progress in the directions where the older generation would want them to go. Whether what comes out would still be associated in any way with "progressive rock" is anyone's guess, but that has already been a broad church in the seventies, which was and is a good thing for sure, and helpful for survival Of course most minor bands will be forgotten but then there may be the odd exception, maybe a few hundred people worldwide who still fly the flag of, say, Zeuhl or whatever, in 2100, and be it just for taking pride of being different. Conclusion: What do I know?
Edited by Lewian - April 17 2024 at 05:32 |
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AJ Junior
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 11 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 253 |
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That'll be my kids one day for sure
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"Together We Stand, Divided We Fall"
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28029 |
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Maybe English is not your first language but that is still a truly great post nevertheless.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
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Hi, Bizarre notion .. to say the least, and it just shows how much "music" so many rock aficionados look at music history ... there are no less than at least 20/25 recordings of the whole thing that can be discussed, all of them, (many times) considered different interpretations, but all with the same title and "complete". If there were versions by Leonard Bernstein or Herbert von Karahan, I would have them in my collection. It's tough saying this ... and when you see the live performance of Jeff Beck doing one of the best known arias, we still can not appreciate it, and still look at it as just another rock song solo and what not. Please show how well versed you are in music ... instead of delineating something that is only a "cover" in rock terms because we dislike classical music and tend to shine on any band doing it. And before ELP's version, The Nice had also done many pieces of classical music.
Innovation and experimentation has very little to do with age. There are just as many (comparatively speaking) experimenting, today, that are young and old all the same. Innovation has to do more with your internal person, than it does "music", or some kind of colorful bullmerde, that folks might think explain what the experimentation and improvisation is all about ... The real issue is the education, and places like PA ... posting stuff that is demeaning to the "talent" that likes to improvise and experiment ... because in the end, it tends to intimidate the artist, into thinking that what he/she is doing is not right, and needs to be redone with a more "recognizable" style and (worse ... !!!) some lyrics so folks know what is going on! But most of us here, are afraid to say something about experimentations and improvisations, because the words for it are difficult to come by ... in general, if you can not FEEL, and LIVE in these pieces, your ability to say something interesting or of value won't show up! Please help the music ... not make it look like it is a left over ... that you throw at the dog or cat, or chickens, or pig!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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