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The CD turns 40!
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I absolutely love CDs. I made a lot of money off of Sony stock with them! Happy 40th, you beauties!

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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

If I spent an exuberant amount of money on vinyl records, I would defend that action to the very end of my life too.

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CDs rule! I love them, and never stopped buying them. Recently, I started collecting vinyl again, not because I want to put one over the other, but I find it fascinating to compare the remastering/remixing of lp and cd. Especially in classical music, as I love the older historical recordings very much.

Edited by presdoug - October 08 2022 at 14:35
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I usually avoid these Analog vs. Digital debates as they always get very technical and move away from subjectivity, for starters. And there's no way to convince an analog listener that digital is just as good or better in some respects, and vice versa. But someone brought up listening fatigue with CDs. I don't know what type of DAC they have, amplifiers or speakers. And honestly, I don't care, as this is totally in the realm of the subjective. Shrill top end to some is magic, while to others it's anathema. My everyday playback is on older Krell mono blocks with a Krell pre amp. My speakers are electrostat Martin Logan Summit Xs. My subs are Definitive. As far as listening fatigue, yes it happens, but only when I play it at very low volumes. A standard feature with most class A systems. But cranked up to 50 to 70 dbs, or more, and I've hit the sweet spot, be it analog or digital. I find very little listening difference aside from variance in dynamic range when comparing the two. And I have no skin in the game. A well mixed and mastered CD is just as good to me as a well mixed and mastered vinyl record. With no preference or preconceived bias, they are both excellent sounding. But it comes down to the equipment they are played on, not so much the medium, in my humble opinion.

100% true. I think what happens sometimes is that people prefer vinyl and then feel the need to come up with some explanation as to why. It must be because it's more natural, because it has higher fidelity, because digital audio causes fatigue, etc. It's hard for some people to accept that they like something because of its shortcomings or quirks. Plus some people could use a reminder of things like the placebo effect and blind tests (not necessarily in vinyl vs digital, but audiophiles in general). The trouble is that just because sound preference is subjective, it doesn't mean that there aren't objective aspects that people just get wrong all the time.

Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.


Edited by Stressed Cheese - October 09 2022 at 02:17
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Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

[EDIT]
Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.
I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

[EDIT]
Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.
I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.

I can't imagine though that they "sound just as vinyl-y". 
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Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

I think what happens sometimes is that people prefer vinyl and then feel the need to come up with some explanation as to why. It must be because it's more natural, because it has higher fidelity, because digital audio causes fatigue, etc. It's hard for some people to accept that they like something because of its shortcomings or quirks.

talking about "absolutist" Wink
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

[EDIT]
Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.
I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.

I can't imagine though that they "sound just as vinyl-y". 


Hmm, could you tell the difference between the CD and the vinyl transferred to CD to sound "vinyl-y"? I suspect not, without a really high end system. 
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Hmm, could you tell the difference between the CD and the vinyl transferred to CD to sound "vinyl-y"? I suspect not, without a really high end system. 

I have a really High-End system, but I've never listened to such a CD in question. I can tell though that I almost always can hear when I'm listening to a CD.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

[EDIT]
Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.
I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.

I can't imagine though that they "sound just as vinyl-y". 


Hmm, could you tell the difference between the CD and the vinyl transferred to CD to sound "vinyl-y"? I suspect not, without a really high end system. 

But if to be quite serious, when the talk is in such a objectivistic way, I don't even really know what it means. I mean "it sound just as vinyl-y" for whom or measured by which instruments, or what is the exactly meaning of such statement?
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Points: 20030 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2022 at 11:48
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

[EDIT]
Fact remains that you can record a vinyl record to a digital file or CD and have it sound just as vinyl-y. And in fact, I'm a little surprised that record companies haven't cashed in on this...the warmth of vinyl pressed on a CD or available for streaming. There's plenty of people uploading vinyl rips to YT or file sharing sites, so there'd be a market for it. It'd be trivially easy to do, though there might be some discussion about the specific tweaks and imperfections if they were to do this. And I suppose record companies would profit more if people keep getting their analog vs digital facts wrong.
I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.

I can't imagine though that they "sound just as vinyl-y". 


Hmm, could you tell the difference between the CD and the vinyl transferred to CD to sound "vinyl-y"? I suspect not, without a really high end system. 

But if to be quite serious, when the talk is in such a objectivistic way, I don't even really know what it means. I mean "it sound just as vinyl-y" for whom or measured by which instruments, or what is the exactly meaning of such statement?

The only thing I can think of is it sounds like it's been scratched.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

The only thing I can think of is it sounds like it's been scratched.

LOL

Okay, we skip the seriousness.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

I've actually done this to about 50 of my LP's that I have never seen available on CD. I record each LP side as a single file, normalize each file, edit each file into individual tracks, I then painstakingly go through each track editing out ticks & pops, then burn the file to a CDR. It allows me to retain the LP for my collection but still have a better sounding CDR medium to play.

 
I have a few LP rips on my PC (and burned some to CD), and I found the process of cutting up the tracks and adding all the metadata already such a pain in the butt, I never bothered editing out pops and stuff. Then again, I suppose the metadata could just be added automatically. But when I get the chance to do so, I'll go through my LP collection to digitize everything. It would be cool to have those versions available for listening at any time I please.

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


But if to be quite serious, when the talk is in such a objectivistic way, I don't even really know what it means. I mean "it sound just as vinyl-y" for whom or measured by which instruments, or what is the exactly meaning of such statement?


I don't really know a better word than vinyl-y, I mean the warmth or whatever you wanna call it that you might hear when playing an LP won't be lost when ripping it to digital. Of course it depends on how pristine the record is, and the setup (e.g. using a different player to record than you usually use to listen), but the point is that the warmth will still be there in the rip. Warmth is a bit of a subjective term, but the fact it's recordable is objectively true. If that clears anything up.
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I too have ripped my vinyl to digital files and did what JD has done using software, it is a tedious job. But those I have done sound better than the CD that I eventually bought later on. There are no adjectives to use they just sound better. 
A huge factor is the ADC being used as well the DAC being used for playback. I 100% always know when I'm listening to a CD.
I don't experience the same emotions from a CD that I do with the vinyl version, again no need for any audio adjectives, it's not there for me. I have waayyyyyy too many years of experience listening to both, on both low end systems as well higher end systems.
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^ It makes sense in a less scientific way---  when a gemstone stylus is pulling through grooves in vinyl producing measurable vibrations, it's going produce a different, more physical sound.



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If to be quite honest, I better not to tell what I have been thinking and feeling about the CD-medium 
for a lot of years before I learned to accept and live with it.







Edited by David_D - October 10 2022 at 11:05
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

If to be quite honest, I better not to tell what I have been thinking and feeling about the CD-medium 
for a lot of years before I learned to accept and live with it.

Now, I try to think more about its pluses than minuses compared to the pure analog vinyl medium. Smile
And when buying old albums on CD, I have best experience with the early AAD versions, not least mastered by Nimbus.



Edited by David_D - October 11 2022 at 04:30
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

The only thing I can think of is it sounds like it's been scratched.

LOL

Okay, we skip the seriousness.


I was being serious.
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I have burned CDr through my hi-fi burner at real speed directly from the vinyl (it was the first two Maneige), and had buddies listen to it in a blind test, and they couldn't tell the difference between the two
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

The only thing I can think of is it sounds like it's been scratched.

LOL

Okay, we skip the seriousness.
I was being serious.

Then I keep on laughing. Big smile

Or what does that exactly mean?


Edited by David_D - October 11 2022 at 06:05
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