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Why is Tull's "A Passion Play" rated so low?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2019 at 17:33
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

PP is only rated low by those that won't make the effort to find out what the whole thing is about ... plain and simple!
 
I'm quite sure it's possible for someone to fully understand the background to the album and still not like the music. It might give you a better understanding about the concept as a whole but that doesn't mean your opinion of the music will necessarily change.

The sad part of it all is the post about someone not interested in "intelectual" this and that ... and in the end, it's like saying that no one in their time appreciated Shakespeare for its intelect ... and some were drunk and some of those folks weren't ... but the plays and the words survived and are remembered fondly.

I have this weird idea that someone posts that thinking that there is an intelligent bunch of listeners and an ignorant bunch of listeners, and that different ideas and "concepts" are not wanted or cared about, specially now that everyone (even here!!!) is so dang converted to "commercial" everything ... meaning that a Passion Play, or a Siddartha, or some esoteric Summerian Literature is not a fit subject for smoking dope and enjoying the fluff and snuff and puff that ... some lower class uses, instead of the supposedly better educated higher class ... that is so wrong ... people are people, and it doesn't matter the color the race and anything else ... and someone just posting that all they are interested in is their beer and their this and that ... just about takes the sails out of Progressive Music ... and makes me wonder ... why is that person even here? They likely belong with the Kiss crown, not, in this case, on a Jethro Tull discussion ... 

And this is something that hurts a lot of musicians out there, all of whom grow in many ways, and want to try different things ... only to be told by some folks that they can't ... you belong to me, and I don't like these smart stuff you are doing ... there is no artist out there that is not going to tell you where to stuff it! Or, as one guy here in Portland perfectly put it, right in front of the audience ... you are obviously in the wrong place ... if you want your money back, simply talk to James over there and kindly leave!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 01:13
I want my titties and I want my beer and I want my (post meddle) floyd concert and I want my joint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:03
I can identify with the thread starter here. I mean, it's clear that it's a matter of taste and I can get why somebody may not like the album, but I don't really get why many who think of TAAB as a masterpiece find Passion Play disappointing. I think it's actually a great follower of TAAB in being similar in some respects and following up on some of TAAB's strengths, but also having many new ideas and twists, so one can certainly not say that it's just cheap rehash. Also its cohesion isn't worse in my view than TAAB. For me it all makes sense (I'm speaking music here, lyrics I don't mind much), great album! And the Hare is fun, if silly.

On allmusic Passion Play has a weak looking 3 stars, but the review actually reads like 4 or more. No idea what's wrong with people when it comes to the Passion Play.



Edited by Lewian - October 08 2019 at 10:06
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dr prog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 14:22
I played side 2 yesterday from the remix. Cool melodies for 20 minutes. Love the extra minutes. I removed the Hare also. A strong 8.5/10 for Side 2. With quality music it comes down to taste? Yeah whether you have good taste or sh*te taste lol
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 16:09
I hadn’t listened to APP in a long time. I just did. I warmed up to it a bit. It had good stretches and bad stretches. It was definitely not cohesive. Poorly thought out. The cohesion in TAAB is far superior. TAAB is not a masterpiece. Aqualung is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 16:21
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

I hadn’t listened to APP in a long time. I just did. I warmed up to it a bit. It had good stretches and bad stretches. It was definitely not cohesive. Poorly thought out. The cohesion in TAAB is far superior. TAAB is not a masterpiece. Aqualung is.




Aqualung isn’t because Wind up is crap. Wish up the pool and wondring again was on it.
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2019 at 23:02
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

I hadn’t listened to APP in a long time. I just did. I warmed up to it a bit. It had good stretches and bad stretches. It was definitely not cohesive. Poorly thought out. The cohesion in TAAB is far superior. TAAB is not a masterpiece. Aqualung is.




Aqualung isn’t because Wind up is crap. Wish up the pool and wondring again was on it.

I actually agree Wind Up is crap. Aqualung is a masterpiece to me because of everything else on it, which is that good. But that’s the thing with Ian Anderson. His songwriting and composition can be exceptionally penetrating and poignant, or tedious and ponderous to a point of exhaustion.   






Edited by HackettFan - October 09 2019 at 23:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 02:32
Shakespeare? Complete and utter w**k! I prefer the "principia" every day of the week. A true work of Genius...as is "Origin of Species"....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 16:01
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

I hadn’t listened to APP in a long time. I just did. I warmed up to it a bit. It had good stretches and bad stretches. It was definitely not cohesive. Poorly thought out. The cohesion in TAAB is far superior. TAAB is not a masterpiece. Aqualung is.



I re-listened to both TAAB and APP yesterday and I agree....TAAB is more melodic with better song structures....both are lyrically interesting  but TAAB is simply a better album musically.
And I agree...I also prefer Aqualung to both of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2019 at 16:15
My damned college roommate use to torment me by playing APP endlessly.  I exacted revenge by playing "Foxtrot" endlessly.  He couldn't stand Gabriel's "mincing Brit" lilting lyric style!!  

Eventually, we came to understandings, and he became one of the biggest Gabriel/Genesis fans I know of.  

I eventually warmed up to APP but much prefer other works, including TAAB and "Minstrel."  

BTW, I am so damned old that I saw Tull perform TAAB in concert!  10 October, 1972!  Amazing show!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 04:10
I don't know why you ask this question! I don't care about what people think about it. I don't want to know another guys reasons about their votes. I don't need "Album Rates" to enjoy music. 

I like to know people opinions about music and I love to discuss about musicians and albums and songs and ... but "Rates" never show value or quality... IMO and I don't carious about people votes!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 04:26
again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 05:02
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
It is if one thinks the album is a masterpiece like the OP does. I think it's rated too highly and deserves a 2.5-3.0.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 05:07
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
It is if one thinks the album is a masterpiece like the OP does. I think it's rated too highly and deserves a 2.5-3.0.


if the OP thinks it's a masterpice, then he should rate it a 5 stars.

4 stars still means essential album, so, I don't get it I guess...


Edited by Cristi - October 11 2019 at 05:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 06:03
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
It is if one thinks the album is a masterpiece like the OP does. I think it's rated too highly and deserves a 2.5-3.0.


if the OP thinks it's a masterpice, then he should rate it a 5 stars.

4 stars still means essential album, so, I don't get it I guess...
It is simply because "essential" does not equal "masterpiece". 4 does not equal 5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 06:10
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
It is if one thinks the album is a masterpiece like the OP does. I think it's rated too highly and deserves a 2.5-3.0.


if the OP thinks it's a masterpice, then he should rate it a 5 stars.

4 stars still means essential album, so, I don't get it I guess...
It is simply because "essential" does not equal "masterpiece". 4 does not equal 5.


like i said, i don't get it... but then again I rarely rate albums 5 stars or a perfect rating (other sites have different rating systems). When it rarely happens, it's either me never getting enough of that album or being blown away (it's rare, but it does happen). Big smile

So to me 4 stars is a high, positive rating. Complaing about that seems strange (for lack of a better word).

Now if APP was rated much lower, I would understand the complaint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 06:26
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

again 4.02 is NOT a low rating.
It is if one thinks the album is a masterpiece like the OP does. I think it's rated too highly and deserves a 2.5-3.0.


if the OP thinks it's a masterpice, then he should rate it a 5 stars.

4 stars still means essential album, so, I don't get it I guess...
It is simply because "essential" does not equal "masterpiece". 4 does not equal 5.


like i said, i don't get it... but then again I rarely rate albums 5 stars or a perfect rating (other sites have different rating systems). When it rarely happens, it's either me never getting enough of that album or being blown away (it's rare, but it does happen). Big smile

So to me 4 stars is a high, positive rating. Complaing about that seems strange (for lack of a better word).

Now if APP was rated much lower, I would understand the complaint.
Yes, I know someone who will argue to the death that Born To Run is the greatest rock album ever made and gets crazy and defensive when someone disagrees. What can you do? I'm not saying that of the OP but these people exist.

Edited by SteveG - October 11 2019 at 06:29
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dr prog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 15:16
The albums remix sets are rated 4.5 star average. The 12th is coming out next week. That’s where Tull stand. 9/10 band equals best band of the 70s
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandro28grizz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 17:50
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

4 stars (4.02) is not a bad/low rating...

I specifically said that I was not talking about the site rating ( I did not even know what the number rating was tbh), rather the fact that the album has so many detractors, even among prog fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandro28grizz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2019 at 18:02
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

I hadn’t listened to APP in a long time. I just did. I warmed up to it a bit. It had good stretches and bad stretches. It was definitely not cohesive. Poorly thought out. The cohesion in TAAB is far superior. TAAB is not a masterpiece. Aqualung is.



See, I can sort of agree with you, to my ears APP has a few transitions that seem a bit abrupt (mostly very early on), but for the most part it makes sense to me. I could say the same about TAAB though, there are a few clunky stop-start transitions in there as well, I don't really see how TAAB is so much better than APP.
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