Have you ever believed in god?

Logan wrote: I have almost always called myself an agnostic, since I don't think that I can really know.

One can't, but you shouldn't have to. Though pure faith (no facts, no proof) is fairly impossible.
I've always been a christian btw.

DDPascalDD wrote: Logan wrote: I have almost always called myself an agnostic, since I don't think that I can really know.,... One can't, but you shouldn't have to. Though pure faith (no facts, no proof) is fairly impossible. I've always been a christian btw.

One can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a God. Using the principle of Occam's Razor, which requires less assumptions, that there is a God or that there is not one? Some would say that the simplest solution is that we were created by a God, but for me to take such a leap of faith would require some evidence, and would require many assumptions. And what is evident to you may not be evident to me. And of course there's always the problem of first cause: if we needed a God to create us, what was needed to create God? Always was and always will be some would say, or exists in another dimension where time and space and our laws of physics do not apply? Anyway, I'm being silly.

What kind of a Christian are you? I'm more comfortable in an Anglican church than say a Pentecostal one, and have found Anglicans less dogmatic than most born again Chrisians I know (most of which seem uncomfortable when one one even questions the faith -- my wife was a Roman Catholic turned born again). Are you a literalist? Much of the Christian philosophy does appeal to me. I find the teachings attributed to, and the way of, Jesus in the New Testament much more palatable than those related to Mohammed, for instance. Very different characters -- the Koran sees Jesus differently than in Christianity, incidentally.

You have always been a Christian, born elsewhere you might have always been a Hindu... Maybe then you'd believe in gods....

The Dark Elf wrote: The problem with religion is not God, per se, but rather the people who follow it.

Yes, and how people perceive God can be a problem. One can believe in God while eschewing religion. "Are you religious, and if so what does it mean to you?" would be another interesting thread. Religion is created, developed and fostered by people. I see a problem with not only certain people who follow it, but also with people who developed religions. I have a problem with people who claim to know God's will, and especially when they inculcate people with these beliefs and try to force their world view on others (sometimes in violent ways). I have a problem with those who claim to be God's chosen people, and the unbelievers, as with some, are less than human and/or are enemies. Of course some religions or sects of religions espouse values that are much more in keeping with my values, and I don't claim that my sectarian values must be universal.

It's one thing to believe in God, it's another to feel that you and your ilk are the only ones to hold the truth and know his will, and all others be damned.

When religion gets in the way of rationality, yes, I can have a problem.

Edited by Logan - April 17 2016 at 17:04

@Logan: Well it's something like protest reformd, if that says anything to you (I don't really know the currents). A bit of an old church (and people), but I personally prefer it to a church where everyone throw their hands in the air and scream hallelujah- just to illustrate.
I try to be very open minded but I need some kind of proof for myself and do not like too strict rules. Fortunately my parents raised me with faith and at a certain age you become curious and critical and want to know if it's real. With such an attitude I tried to behave like I thought a christian should and felt that it couldn't be different. I just knew that God existed. I can't explain you how and shouldn't because it's all personal, you have to experience itself.
I'm quite interested in philosophy and some now and then read a little about it but I can't call myself a literalist. My view is that you don't need knowledge about the bible or philosophy. Sometimes you want a question to be answered, but you must form your own answers to questions of life IMO; literature is then helpful and can be very interesting.

Logan wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: The problem with religion is not God, per se, but rather the people who follow it. Yes, and how people perceive God can be a problem. One can believe in God while eschewing religion. "Are you religious, and if so what does it mean to you?" would be another interesting thread. Religion is created, developed and fostered by people. I see a problem with not only certain people who follow it, but also with people who developed religions. I have a problem with people who claim to know God's will, and especially when they inculcate people with these beliefs and try to force their world view on others (sometimes in violent ways). I have a problem with those who claim to be God's chosen people, and the unbelievers, as with some, are less than human and/or are enemies. Of course some religions or sects of religions espouse values that are much more in keeping with my values, and I don't claim that my sectarian values must be universal. It's one thing to believe in God, it's another to feel that you and your ilk are the only ones to hold the truth and know his will, and all others be damned.

"Jesus Is Alright" by The Doobie Brothers, 1972  

BaldJean wrote: before one can state belief or disbelief in God one first has to define God. it is by no means certain that two people mean the same thing when referring to God. to make my point clear: to believe in tigers one first has to define what a tiger is (a large animal of the cat family with black and yellow stripes), else the statements "I believe in tigers" or "I don't believe in tigers" are totally meaningless

I was born and raised atheist, which is a rarity around the central woods of Europe (well, only in Poland it's a rarity). About 90% of citizens are baptised - I am not. And I never plan to!


Edited by ALotOfBottle - June 07 2016 at 10:11

I do not need to define God to believe

dr wu23 wrote: ALotOfBottle wrote: I was born and raised atheist, which is a rarity around the central woods of Europe (well, only in Poland it's a rarity). About 90% of citizens are baptised - I am not. And I never plan to!   And most who are theists were born and raised that way....it's a family thing until one gets older and makes a choice. Have you investigated why you believe that atheism is right for you?   I'm agnostic because imho it's the only tenable position to have.

Yes, my parents' point was to make me investigate and make my own choice.
And so I have. I firmly believe that all answers one should ever need are within the human mind. I find atheism the most logical of all. I'd rather not get into detailed discussion, not because I don't want to or feel like I don't have arguments, but rather because I feel a discussion about such things through the internet (and especially a forum) is well... aimless. Everybody has their own beliefs and as long as you are a positive and kind human being, I don't care what or who you believe in.

ALotOfBottle wrote: dr wu23 wrote: ALotOfBottle wrote: I was born and raised atheist, which is a rarity around the central woods of Europe (well, only in Poland it's a rarity). About 90% of citizens are baptised - I am not. And I never plan to!   And most who are theists were born and raised that way....it's a family thing until one gets older and makes a choice. Have you investigated why you believe that atheism is right for you?   I'm agnostic because imho it's the only tenable position to have. Yes, my parents' point was to make me investigate and make my own choice. And so I have. I firmly believe that all answers one should ever need are within the human mind. I find atheism the most logical of all. I'd rather not get into detailed discussion, not because I don't want to or feel like I don't have arguments, but rather because I feel a discussion about such things through the internet (and especially a forum) is well... aimless. Everybody has their own beliefs and as long as you are a positive and kind human being, I don't care what or who you believe in.

see, this is why I insist you should define God first before saying you believe or don't believe. my belief has nothing whatever to do with the answers one needs being in God, so I agree with you they should be in the human mind.

my position is this: everything in the world is a process, an elemental particle as well as the human consciousness. speaking of the latter: no-one has any idea where it comes from.

I do, however, observe that the more complicated and self-reflective a process is the more consciousness it has. now the most complex process in the world is the universe itself, and thus I believe it does have a consciousness.

does this consciousness care for us humans? doubtful; it is even possible it does not know of our existence at all or if it does it is not directly aware of us (just like a human being is not directly aware of for example his or her blood cells).

does it have any of the moral qualities that are usually ascribed to God, like just and forgiving? again most probably not