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Petrovsk Mizinski 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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 Posted: October 20 2008 at 06:54 |
 MovingPictures07 wrote:
HughesJB4 wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
Can I say "Because they're extremely overrated" each time I take points from Rush?
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Way to state your opinion, Rob. Care to back it up?
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I think that was originally Bern.
Anyway, the over-rated point.
1. I don't think Rush are a bad band, per se.
2. I could really fully explain why I dislike the lyrics a lot of the time; it often sounds to me like they're trying too hard (main e.g. Free will, Hemispheres). Going to leave it at not liking them for the moment.
3. Rush are often considered virtuoso players. I can't see it. They're all capable, and their talents are usually shown off a lot, but I still find people like Barriemore Barlowe, Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond or Guy Evans more distinctive and interesting players, even if they're raved about less.
4. Geddy Lee won a best keyboard player poll.
5. The others here are among my favourite bands and have all done a fair bit of truly ultra-pioneering work. I can't really say the same for Rush. Always considered them more artistic than progressive.
Basically, I don't dislike them, and Caress of Steel is a real favourite of mine, I just can't really see why people are so devoted to them, or why Peart keeps getting more votes than Carl Palmer in best drummer ever polls.
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He's kinda right about the virtuoso thing,
Alex Lifeson wasn't even close to a virtuoso.
Skilled, but hardly pulling out insane legato licks like Allan Holdsworth or kick ass alternate picked lines like Al Dimeola..
Peart is the most capable member IMO.. again, while Geddy is skilled, I can think of a million bass players who make him look like a hack.
In fact, that's my only beef with Rush to be honest, is their skills being hyped up beyond what they can actually play.
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See them live and then tell me that.
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I never said they can't play their own stuff. I'm saying they are made out to be virtuosos, when clearly they are not. Alex Lifeson is hardly Randy Rhoads, Uli Jon Roth or John Petrucci, as Geddy Lee is hardly John Myung or Billy Sheehan. Neil Peart ain't Mike Mangini or Virgil Donati either. And BTW, I don't think they are overrated... they are just as important to prog as anything that Rob happens to be a fanboy of 
Edited by HughesJB4 - October 20 2008 at 06:55
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 07:03 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
He's kinda right about the virtuoso thing,
Alex Lifeson wasn't even close to a virtuoso.
Skilled, but hardly pulling out insane legato licks like Allan Holdsworth or kick ass alternate picked lines like Al Dimeola..
Peart is the most capable member IMO.. again, while Geddy is skilled, I can think of a million bass players who make him look like a hack.
In fact, that's my only beef with Rush to be honest, is their skills being hyped up beyond what they can actually play.
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See them live and then tell me that. [/QUOTE] I never said they can't play their own stuff. I'm saying they are made out to be virtuosos, when clearly they are not. Alex Lifeson is hardly Randy Rhoads, Uli Jon Roth or John Petrucci, as Geddy Lee is hardly John Myung or Billy Sheehan. Neil Peart ain't Mike Mangini or Virgil Donati either. And BTW, I don't think they are overrated... they are just as important to prog as anything that Rob happens to be a fanboy of [/QUOTE] ELP, Yes, Genesis, Floyd and *perhaps* also Tull aside, I agree. They're definitely a bit better known than VDGG, though not as ultra-amazing. Who knows, perhaps Hammill's vocal influences might actually end up being more influential than Rush.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 08:09 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
HughesJB4 wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
Can I say "Because they're extremely overrated" each time I take points from Rush?
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Way to state your opinion, Rob. Care to back it up?
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I think that was originally Bern.
Anyway, the over-rated point.
1. I don't think Rush are a bad band, per se.
2. I could really fully explain why I dislike the lyrics a lot of the time; it often sounds to me like they're trying too hard (main e.g. Free will, Hemispheres). Going to leave it at not liking them for the moment.
3. Rush are often considered virtuoso players. I can't see it. They're all capable, and their talents are usually shown off a lot, but I still find people like Barriemore Barlowe, Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond or Guy Evans more distinctive and interesting players, even if they're raved about less.
4. Geddy Lee won a best keyboard player poll.
5. The others here are among my favourite bands and have all done a fair bit of truly ultra-pioneering work. I can't really say the same for Rush. Always considered them more artistic than progressive.
Basically, I don't dislike them, and Caress of Steel is a real favourite of mine, I just can't really see why people are so devoted to them, or why Peart keeps getting more votes than Carl Palmer in best drummer ever polls.
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He's kinda right about the virtuoso thing,
Alex Lifeson wasn't even close to a virtuoso.
Skilled, but hardly pulling out insane legato licks like Allan Holdsworth or kick ass alternate picked lines like Al Dimeola..
Peart is the most capable member IMO.. again, while Geddy is skilled, I can think of a million bass players who make him look like a hack.
In fact, that's my only beef with Rush to be honest, is their skills being hyped up beyond what they can actually play.
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See them live and then tell me that.
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I never said they can't play their own stuff.
I'm saying they are made out to be virtuosos, when clearly they are not.
Alex Lifeson is hardly Randy Rhoads, Uli Jon Roth or John Petrucci, as Geddy Lee is hardly John Myung or Billy Sheehan.
Neil Peart ain't Mike Mangini or Virgil Donati either.
And BTW, I don't think they are overrated... they are just as important to prog as anything that Rob happens to be a fanboy of
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Virtuosos?  No claim to that was ever made that I am aware of. The fact is, Rush has been around for so long due to their ability to write good music. One can be a virtuoso and still write crap and frankly, that is the norm. Creating a good piece of music does not require you to be the most proficient at your instrument. The Rush library contains so much great material, much more than other bands that are proclaimed to be the best. And their staying power is a testimony to them as well.
Any statement about the quality of a band along with it's music in relation to virtuosity is irrelevant because there is no clear connection. And any fan of the band Rush would be foolish to mark any member of the band as the most proficient.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 09:59 |
Jethro Tull 30
King Crimson 6
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:25 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Virtuosos? No claim to that was ever made that I am aware of. The fact is, Rush has been around for so long due to their ability to write good music. One can be a virtuoso and still write crap and frankly, that is the norm. Creating a good piece of music does not require you to be the most proficient at your instrument. The Rush library contains so much great material, much more than other bands that are proclaimed to be the best. And their staying power is a testimony to them as well.
Any statement about the quality of a band along with it's music in relation to virtuosity is irrelevant because there is no clear connection. And any fan of the band Rush would be foolish to mark any member of the band as the most proficient. |
Perfectly happy with people liking Rush's writing skills. They do have them, though I'm much fonder of some of the other bands in the poll.
Essentially, overrated means a band which you think everyone else thinks is better than you think they are. In my case, that most definitely applies to Rush. I know I can't objectively prove it, though I can explain my subjective reasons for thinking it pretty well. I think Rush are very highly rated, especially in a couple of categories (musicianship and lyrics) that I don't think they were that great at. In particular, I don't think their high points are on a par with most of the other bands in this game.
I'm still waiting to see anyone give me an interesting reason why Rush should be considered about twice as good as Crimson, Yes, Genesis or VDGG other or that Moving Pictures is a masterpiece of prog rock.
The main place I get the virtuosity idea from is the polls and a couple of friends I know who think Peart is, for some reason, the best drummer ever.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:26 |
Jethro Tull 28*
King Crimson 6
Can't bring myself to remove Crimson. Tull down a couple.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:27 |
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Jethro Tull 26
King Crimson 6
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:43 |
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Jethro Tull 24
King Crimson 6
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:55 |
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Jethro Tull 22
King Crimson 6
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Jozef
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 2204
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:05 |
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Jethro Tull 20
King Crimson 6
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:23 |
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Jethro Tull 18
King Crimson 6
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:25 |
Jethro Tull 16
King Crimson 6
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:28 |
Jethro Tull 15
King Crimson 7*
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:29 |
Jethro Tull 14
King Crimson 8*
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:32 |
Jethro Tull 12 King Crimson 8
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:35 |
Jethro Tull 10 King Crimson 8
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moreitsythanyou
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 11:46 |
Jethro Tull 10
King Crimson 6
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 <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:05 |
Jethro Tull 8
King Crimson 6
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:06 |
Jethro Tull 10
King Crimson 6
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:09 |
Jethro Tull 10
King Crimson 4
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