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Topic ClosedCovid-19 and the madness of crowds
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Points: 17796 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 00:43
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Well as much as I agree with you, it may be a bit early to "open back up". But ND is not the problem, again since you mention a political plug....Have you seen what Calif and Washington have allowed, the Dem capitols of the west coast? 
All So Cal beaches were populated this past weekend, people were out in droves basking in the sun and frolicking in the ocean. Here in WA state, parks were opened back up and people were again out in numbers hanging out, as well a very popular farmers market near Seattle was open this past weekend. The messages these states are sending to the public is highly confusing..........So based on what these two large populated states are allowing, how can you blame ND?
 

Only Newport Beach and Huntington Beach (in Orange County) opened, so everyone flocked there. San Diego County is only beginning to open their beaches, slowly, as of Monday. Los Angeles County has yet to follow suit.
I grew up in So Cal and Huntington Beach was it, we did all our surfing there. I guess to me a beach just goes on into another one...but I agree with your correction, thanks.
Also not sure of the validity but I heard on news less than 10 people were arrested, probably for disorderly conduct LOL.
 

I didn't hear that part, but I believe it. LOL

Whelp, the Gov'nor didn't like what he saw, i.e. the footage of all those people descending on the beaches of NewHuntPortington and is expected to announce ALL beaches shall be closed till further notice.
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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 03:13
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Exceptional opinion piece by Simon Jenkins in today’s Guardian. Jenkins was a lone voice in 2008 when he, rightly, called for government not to bailout the banks, but provide monies to citizens instead, something I strongly agreed with at the time.

In time to come, I think this article will prove to be absolutely on the money.
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2020 at 08:48
That was only 12 years ago. Give trickle-down economics a chance, will ya? Any Trump University graduate will tell you that.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2020 at 09:14
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Exceptional opinion piece by Simon Jenkins in today’s Guardian. Jenkins was a lone voice in 2008 when he, rightly, called for government not to bailout the banks, but provide monies to citizens instead, something I strongly agreed with at the time.

In time to come, I think this article will prove to be absolutely on the money.

Yes, even in the US the lockdown is lopsided but the grip is slowly being untightened.
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 00:38
Mainly the red US states seem to be taking a breathtaking attitude in starting to open everything up even this week, especially those with meat packing facilities. No problem.

I remember for the last few years that the question was asked how someone like Donald Trump were to be confronted with a real crisis (not counting natural weather catastrophes, apparently). We have now seen his response to the Corona virus. As a crisis, it doesn't get much bigger than that. And he's still in with a chance for reelection?

I’m imagining a psychological test scenario where an imaginary train track switch leads onto two separate tracks: one with the population, and one with the economy. Which do you run over?

Well, it seems that the Trump solution is to move one of them over so that one track now contains the population AND the economy, and run both of them over.

What the hell is going on over there? Get rid of that nut job before everyone dies.


Edited by npjnpj - May 06 2020 at 00:39
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Points: 51761 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 10:56
^We're basically on our own here. Usually the feds coordinate the show during a national emergency, but the states have been stuck with battling and outbidding each other to get medical equipment. It's almost like we have 50 separate countries now. 

Time will tell if this premature loosening of restrictions is good or bad. IHME has now revised their projections to over 130,000 dead by August. I'm seeing more and more photos of people not practicing social distancing, almost as if they think we've returned to normal. I'm concerned CIDRAP's Scenario 2 might happen this fall. We may be opening and closing the economy multiple times over the next two years. Canada and Mexico should consider closing their borders with us permanently.
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Points: 1202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 13:16
It's not just the president who's a nut job, the whole country is full of nut jobs!
 
Most of these idiots out waving their placards about their loss of "freedom" or their "right to work" will only learn the reality of the situation when they're in hospital on a ventilator fighting for their life.
 
I don't wish Covid19 on anyone, but most of these idiots act like they really want to end up in the ICU.
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 13:17
I think the US might want to sit that one out.

Edited by npjnpj - May 06 2020 at 13:18
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Points: 65417 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 13:54
^ I'll take that one --

Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:

It's not just the president who's a nut job, the whole country is full of nut jobs!
 
Most of these idiots out waving their placards about their loss of "freedom" or their "right to work" will only learn the reality of the situation when they're in hospital on a ventilator fighting for their life.
 
I don't wish Covid19 on anyone, but most of these idiots act like they really want to end up in the ICU.

Trump is undoubtedly a nut job and so is everyone (almost) who voted for, and still supports, him.   Some of it is probably hedonic adaptation where you continue to believe in something even when it is clearly not what you expected.   But the rest are just misled fools who genuinely believe in Trump's brand of ignorance and buffoonery.

As for Americans complaining about a loss of freedom and right to work, many of whom are not Trump supporters---  well, uh, yeah, of course they are and I don't blame them.   If they wanna risk it and their clients do to, then those communities will either suffer or benefit for it.   What non-Americans either don't grasp or are appalled by is that you'd want freedom and right-to-work over the national health.   But that's a fundamental part of U.S. culture ... land of the free, home of the brave.  


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 14:57

I wouldn’t put anything past anyone.

 

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/03/is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200503Z1&et_cid=DM527830&et_rid=864030521

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsuCa6V7prg
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 15:20
What bugs me is that if you even mention the possibility of COVID-19 having been manufactured, you are immediately placed in the same group of crazies as flat earthers, anti vaxxers, or conspiracy theorists. I find this very suspicious.

What sort of attitude is this? I don't find it unreasonable that at least the possibility should be examined by reliable and independent groups. Under the circumstances in China and taking their past despicable behaviour into account, I personally would give it a 50/50 chance. Some groups have already denied even the possibility, while others are showing that protein insertions unique to this virus ('Insertions' is almost a smoking gun here, not explainable by mutations) are almost a natural impossibility. They have been done in laboratories since the 1970s though. Looking at who the members of the denying groups are is, shall we say, interesting.

Anyways, you don't have an investigation where one possibility is excluded right from the start. Let them look. If they find nothing: great!

But I object that those asking such questions should stick out like a decent human being at a conservative meeting.


Edited by npjnpj - May 06 2020 at 15:50
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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 16:14
I notice many fools ignoring the social distancing regiment. When will people learn.....?
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 19:55
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

What bugs me is that if you even mention the possibility of COVID-19 having been manufactured, you are immediately placed in the same group of crazies as flat earthers, anti vaxxers, or conspiracy theorists. I find this very suspicious.

What sort of attitude is this? I don't find it unreasonable that at least the possibility should be examined by reliable and independent groups. Under the circumstances in China and taking their past despicable behaviour into account, I personally would give it a 50/50 chance. Some groups have already denied even the possibility, while others are showing that protein insertions unique to this virus ('Insertions' is almost a smoking gun here, not explainable by mutations) are almost a natural impossibility. They have been done in laboratories since the 1970s though. Looking at who the members of the denying groups are is, shall we say, interesting.

Anyways, you don't have an investigation where one possibility is excluded right from the start. Let them look. If they find nothing: great!

But I object that those asking such questions should stick out like a decent human being at a conservative meeting.



My theory is this, CIA tricked China through this joint research thing that Newsweek reported (yes, Newsweek, clearly not Alex Jones league) and planted the virus in China. An enraged China deliberately sent superspreaders across US and Europe to spread the virus there too as revenge. This was supposed to destroy the Chinese economy and force the leadership to the negotiating table but it didn't happen and the collective negligence of Trump and European leaders meant it became a worldwide pandemic instead.
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 20:09
What  exactly was in those vials??

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
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Points: 7365 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2020 at 22:31
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's just a freakin' flu.

No.  I have a doctorate in infectious disease epidemiology and am considered an expert in virology and pandemic preparedness. 

I wish this were the flu....we understand influenza very well (orthomixo virus), and have a wide variety of proven & safe medications to fight it including vaccines, antivirals like Tamiflu and written response plans. 

The Covid-19 agent, called SARS-CoV2, is a "spillover" virus originating from a bat.  Bats are filthy with these viruses, and the first SARS in 2003 and MERS in the Middle East both have origins in bats (horseshoe bats in China and Egyptian tomb bats in the Middle East).  

Because SARS-CoV2 is a novel, emerging virus, no humans have ever had exposure to it before, so there is no immunologic memory to this virus.  It has a MUCH higher fatality rate than influenza, spreads very easily, and is  ravaging the planet.  We have virtually no medical tools to fight it off except for ancient ones including seclusion and quarantine. 

The crowds in the USA are indeed quite mad.  Unlike virtually any other country, we have many, many crazy folks who are heavily armed.  However, the entire world seems mad....I find it interesting that toilet paper is missing in nearly every country!!  

The only prog humor I could find in any of this was this photo of Bob Fripp wearing a black (of course!) face mask, with his comment "I advance masked."  
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2020 at 04:44
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's just a freakin' flu.

No.  I have a doctorate in infectious disease epidemiology and am considered an expert in virology and pandemic preparedness. 

I wish this were the flu....we understand influenza very well (orthomixo virus), and have a wide variety of proven & safe medications to fight it including vaccines, antivirals like Tamiflu and written response plans. 

The Covid-19 agent, called SARS-CoV2, is a "spillover" virus originating from a bat.  Bats are filthy with these viruses, and the first SARS in 2003 and MERS in the Middle East both have origins in bats (horseshoe bats in China and Egyptian tomb bats in the Middle East).  

Because SARS-CoV2 is a novel, emerging virus, no humans have ever had exposure to it before, so there is no immunologic memory to this virus.  It has a MUCH higher fatality rate than influenza, spreads very easily, and is  ravaging the planet.  We have virtually no medical tools to fight it off except for ancient ones including seclusion and quarantine. 

The crowds in the USA are indeed quite mad.  Unlike virtually any other country, we have many, many crazy folks who are heavily armed.  However, the entire world seems mad....I find it interesting that toilet paper is missing in nearly every country!!  

The only prog humor I could find in any of this was this photo of Bob Fripp wearing a black (of course!) face mask, with his comment "I advance masked."  



I do not have a doctorate in infectious disease epidemiology and am considered a layman in virology and pandemic preparedness.

 

Does any of what Judy Mikovitz say hold water? She does have impressive credentials.

Again, I’m no expert in the field, but her eyes don’t lie.  I also sense much sadness in her eyes.

This is the same youtube video that I posted above and Youtube removed.. WTF!

Last night it had over 3.6million views and only posted May 4th if I recall correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqksJuT2KfM

She talks in more scientific detail in the Dr. Mercola site I also posted above.  not taken down yet.
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Points: 14934 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2020 at 07:49
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

 

Again, I’m no expert in the field, but her eyes don’t lie.  I also sense much sadness in her eyes.


You've got to work on your assessment criteria... (BTW I have no idea whether what is claimed in the video is true; it is about a lot of stuff that cannot be assessed from the outside, but your statement above is a bullsh*t warning above anything else.)
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2020 at 08:42
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

 

Again, I’m no expert in the field, but her eyes don’t lie.  I also sense much sadness in her eyes.


You've got to work on your assessment criteria... (BTW I have no idea whether what is claimed in the video is true; it is about a lot of stuff that cannot be assessed from the outside, but your statement above is a bullsh*t warning above anything else.)


What are talking about?

My reply was to cstack3, who claims to be knowledgeable about the science.  I on the other hand am not and wanted to get his opinion on that.

You only picked out my ability to read people’s eyes.  Sure, you can call that part bullsh*t if you want.  But some of us can tell a lot by looking into some one’s eyes. 

Did you watch the entire video?  How about the Mercola interview, I bet not.
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Points: 14934 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2020 at 13:12
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

 

You only picked out my ability to read people’s eyes.  Sure, you can call that part bullsh*t if you want.  But some of us can tell a lot by looking into some one’s eyes. 

Did you watch the entire video?  How about the Mercola interview, I bet not.


Well, I leave you with your assumptions. Surely I have no business defending Dr Fauci. By the way I didn't pick out an ability but a statement of yours, and I didn't mean to say it is bullsh*t, but rather that my experience is if something is promoted in the way you promote this video, there's a very good probability that it is bullsh*t. Which didn't even stop me from watching it (there you have it), so you may take this as a success. The vast majority of things claimed in the video by the way are not for a scientist to assess but rather for a journalist or detective, who did what when etc. Much of the scientific part is mere speculation, about which the lady at least is fairly open. Ultimately it's by far not the worst I have seen on that matter, it may even be good, but it's full of claims that an outsider cannot check, not even a virologist.  (Obviously cstack3 is still invited to give his option.)


Edited by Lewian - May 07 2020 at 13:19
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