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NotAProghead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 15:58
^ Cristi, it's an old PA bug, no matter which part of the album page is edited.




Edited by NotAProghead - May 24 2022 at 15:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:02
^ Cristi, when you update any information on an album page through the main site, ALL fields get messed up for special characters. So you must make updates through the admin page if there are special characters anywhere on an album page.

Personally, to be safe, I make all of my updates through the admin page.

You can test it if you want. Just update the same page, then look at it. Then correct it through the admin page. Thumbs Up


Edited by projeKct - May 24 2022 at 16:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:03
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Cristi, it's an old PA bug, no matter which part of the album page is edited.


so I've done nothing wrong.
I'll check the special characters/letters.
Special characters/letters don't work in biographies though, but they do in the line-up somehow, I don't know what that is. I'll see how it can be done better next band to add to features special letters. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:07
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so I've done nothing wrong.
Not sure about that. Please try what I just suggested in my last post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:10
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so I've done nothing wrong.
Not sure about that. Please try what I just suggested in my last post.

"Cristi, it's an old PA bug, no matter which part of the album page is edited."

Again, now i know, I'll see that names get written right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:14
^ Thanks, I just wanted to be sure, so I don't have to "re-fix" every page you fix. Embarrassed

Edited by projeKct - May 24 2022 at 16:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:15
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ Thanks, I just wanted to be sure, so I don't have to "re-fix" every page you fix. Embarrassed

this is discouraging, two figurative slaps in the face in one week. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 16:29
^ Please relax. I didn't want to sound rude. Really! I just wanted to help.

Also, the Errors and Omissions team's job is to correct... well... errors and omissions. Wink That's why we are pretty sensitive about that!


Edited by projeKct - May 24 2022 at 16:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 17:02
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

this is discouraging, two figurative slaps in the face in one week. Ouch

Actually slaps were not planned. "Nothing personal, only business." Smile
We (E&O team) have to be pedantic.


Edited by NotAProghead - May 24 2022 at 17:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 17:07
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

this is discouraging, two figurative slaps in the face in one week. Ouch

Actually slaps were not planned. "Nothing personal, only business." Smile
We (E&O team) have to be pedantic.

Never said you plan such a thing, but it still happened.
Can you be pedantic without being dismissive? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 17:19
^ Was I either pedantic or dismissive? Well, that was not my intention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2022 at 17:29
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Can you be pedantic without being dismissive? 

Being dismissive was not a plan either. I guess it's because of difficulties of translation. It happens from time to time when I'm sure that I'm speaking neutrally and quite politely, but the "other side" finds it dismissive or offensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 01:31
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Can you be pedantic without being dismissive? 

Being dismissive was not a plan either. I guess it's because of difficulties of translation. It happens from time to time when I'm sure that I'm speaking neutrally and quite politely, but the "other side" finds it dismissive or offensive.

Blaming translation really? Dead

Not to worry, I'll stay away from editing anything... 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 09:28
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Not to worry, I'll stay away from editing anything... 
If you use the Admin panel for editing album pages, there will be no problem. That was my only point from the beginning.

If you don't want to edit pages anymore, I respect your choice.

Sorry to insist, but I still don't get what upset you in the first place. It makes me sad, to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 11:06
It makes me sad that you can’t see how patronising and condescending you have been, as well as pedantic and dismissive,

You pretty much said it wasn’t Cristi‘a fault, but an old PA bug. Cristi checked he had done nothing wrong, which would normally seem unnecessary- but after having been “told off” for making a simple name change recently, it is understandable.

The reply to his checking he had done nothing wrong was “not so sure about that” or something along those lines. Which is ridiculous enough, but then went on to say you might need to “re-fix” all Cristi’s updates. If you can’t see the problem is on your side, not Cristi’s, that’s on you, and maybe you need to read back and see how you could have communicated better.

As for blaming it on translation and language differences, while that can be an issue elsewhere on the forum, I agree it is a cop out here. But given that came from the same person who believes bigotry, prejudice and discrimination are not universal, that is hardly surprising. That is why white South Africans calling non white South Africans kaffirs wasn’t actually racist. It was merely lost in translation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 12:40
^ O sancta simplicitas!
I can't understand why you keep on adding fuel to the fire.

Both problems had pure technical moments:
1. One of the artists changed name.
As we agreed (I hope), both old (I don't like the word dead) and new names should be shown in the albums' (made before the change) credits, newer releases would contain only the new name.
2. Editing albums' info with diactric letters from the album page spoils info, because diactric letters turn to question marks.
This also means: if you've changed some info, look at the results and fix them if something's went wrong. It's simple and, in my opinion, obvious for anyone.

We could solve both problems peacefully, without blaming each other in numerous phobias or blind following new trends, but we have a hot discussion instead. 




Edited by NotAProghead - May 25 2022 at 12:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 12:46
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

It makes me sad that you can’t see how patronising and condescending you have been, as well as pedantic and dismissive,

You pretty much said it wasn’t Cristi‘a fault, but an old PA bug. Cristi checked he had done nothing wrong, which would normally seem unnecessary- but after having been “told off” for making a simple name change recently, it is understandable.

The reply to his checking he had done nothing wrong was “not so sure about that” or something along those lines. Which is ridiculous enough, but then went on to say you might need to “re-fix” all Cristi’s updates. If you can’t see the problem is on your side, not Cristi’s, that’s on you, and maybe you need to read back and see how you could have communicated better.

As for blaming it on translation and language differences, while that can be an issue elsewhere on the forum, I agree it is a cop out here. But given that came from the same person who believes bigotry, prejudice and discrimination are not universal, that is hardly surprising. That is why white South Africans calling non white South Africans kaffirs wasn’t actually racist. It was merely lost in translation.


let's move on, there's no reason to carry on with this further. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 13:01
^ WOW, OK! Thanks for taking the time to explain you point of view. But please let me TRY to explain as well.

If you re-read the discussion from the beginning, you will see that I tried to explain the PA bug to Cristi. My first words were "Cristi, please note that when you update an album page through the main site, special characters are replaced by question marks. In this case, Mike Häfliger became Mike H?fliger. So you have to make those changes through the admin panel. Thanks!" Do you see any problem here?

Then, when I said "not sure about that", I meant that his update has caused an error due to the PA bug, not because of him. I also wanted to underline that he could not see the error at this point, because I've already fixed it on this album page. I wanted him to know that, for future updates, it might be better to always use the Admin panel.

Now that I think of it, I should have replied with something like "What do you mean?" instead of "not sure about that" because I didn't understand why Cristi replied "so I've done nothing wrong". Sure, it wasn't really WRONG, but it wasn't CORRECT either, because the page had an error. You see? It's so hard to not look pedantic (or whatever) when talking about this!!

I don't care so much about re-fixing anything (or everything), that's my job here. And I work A LOT, too much maybe. I've updated thousands of pages in the last 2 years. About half of the database! It was nice to see that Cristi wanted to help us, the E&O team. That's why I wanted to inform him of that PA bug. I could have just let it go, and re-fix the page later. In fact, I almost when with that idea. But I wanted to optimize the process. So I discussed with him and my so-so English skills.

Finally, please note that I have nothing to do with the "name change" debate you had earlier this month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 13:52
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ WOW, OK! Thanks for taking the time to explain you point of view. But please let me TRY to explain as well.

If you re-read the discussion from the beginning, you will see that I tried to explain the PA bug to Cristi. My first words were "Cristi, please note that when you update an album page through the main site, special characters are replaced by question marks. In this case, Mike Häfliger became Mike H?fliger. So you have to make those changes through the admin panel. Thanks!" Do you see any problem here?

Then, when I said "not sure about that", I meant that his update has caused an error due to the PA bug, not because of him. I also wanted to underline that he could not see the error at this point, because I've already fixed it on this album page. I wanted him to know that, for future updates, it might be better to always use the Admin panel.

Now that I think of it, I should have replied with something like "What do you mean?" instead of "not sure about that" because I didn't understand why Cristi replied "so I've done nothing wrong". Sure, it wasn't really WRONG, but it wasn't CORRECT either, because the page had an error. You see? It's so hard to not look pedantic (or whatever) when talking about this!!

I don't care so much about re-fixing anything (or everything), that's my job here. And I work A LOT, too much maybe. I've updated thousands of pages in the last 2 years. About half of the database! It was nice to see that Cristi wanted to help us, the E&O team. That's why I wanted to inform him of that PA bug. I could have just let it go, and re-fix the page later. In fact, I almost when with that idea. But I wanted to optimize the process. So I discussed with him and my so-so English skills.

Finally, please note that I have nothing to do with the "name change" debate you had earlier this month.

Honestly, I don’t really have a problem with what you said, so much as the other. And, yes, I am well aware you had nothing to do with the name change debate. You wisely stayed out of that one! 🤗

But if my post made you think about what you said, and how you could have said it differently, then that is cool. It means it was a worthwhile post.

I know you don’t have a problem about re-fixing anything, and if you did that would be a problem in itself. Again, it was the way you worded it. Whether intentional or not, both times you (probably inadvertently) replied in a manner that could easily be inferred as dismissive and critical. You were trying to help, I’m sure, but you came across in a very different way. Or, at least, Cristi took it in a very different way, and I could understand why he had.

It is not that you have ever said anything wrong, or bad, per se. It has been the choice of words.
Honestly, I have never had a problem with anything you have said, personally.

As for the very first question you asked, about your very first words, no - I saw no problem there at all. And neither, it seemed, did Cristi, it was only after he was checking it was not because he had done anything wrong, that things went awry.

[EDIT] As aforementioned, personally I have no problem with what you have said at all. But if I were the type to take offence easily (not that I’m suggesting that Cristi would be normally, and I think it was because he was still reeling from the slap in the face he got from the name change - which, again, I know had nothing to do with you), I could have felt that you suggesting I read from the beginning was patronising and/or condescending. I didn’t, because you have made it obvious that you are someone who likes to safe than sorry, and would rather (re)emphasise something already said, than assume someone has actually read it. But that was the problem when you said “not sure” after Cristi checked he had done nothing wrong, and then repeated what you had already said. Again, that wasn’t wrong, and I wouldn’t have taken offence at it. I don’t even think Cristi would have normally, either. But it could be taken that way.




Edited by nick_h_nz - May 25 2022 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 14:13
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I could have felt that you suggesting I read from the beginning was patronising and/or condescending. I didn’t, because you have made it obvious that you are someone who likes to safe than sorry, and would rather (re)emphasise something already said, than assume someone has actually read it. But that was the problem when you said “not sure” after Cristi checked he had done nothing wrong, and then repeated what you had already said. Again, that wasn’t wrong, and I wouldn’t have taken offence at it. I don’t even think Cristi would have normally, either. But it could be taken that way.

Well, now I feel sorry about the "re-read" suggestion. Embarrassed Can I backtrack on it?

But I also want to thank you for taking all this time to explain your point of view. I take notes. I will try my best to not upset anyone unintentionally in future posts.

Peace!
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