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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 45604 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:56
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 
 


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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping?
I think Genre Teams are "locomotives" of this site, making the most of sughificant work and principal changes, while we (Errors & Omissions team) are only a helping hand.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping? 
Why are we still having this conversation? 
What is the mistake that I made?
 
We still having this conversation because in my (and, as we see in this thread, not only my) opinion replacing the name in all releases (including the old ones, when "new name" didn't exist) is a cataloguing error.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

What is the best resource of the band's line-up? (If not their official site and bandcamp). 
I think the one and only "true" resource doesn't exist. I guess the band uses new name on their official site and bandcamp in order to please their colleague. But old CDs, LPs etc still list the old name. To prevent confusion, we need both, old and new, names for the releases made before the change of the name.  
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Points: 7933 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:15
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 

Well-mannered people usually clean up after themselves. Wink
But no problem, it will not hurt my pride to "go ahead". 
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 45604 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:17
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping?
I think Genre Teams are "locomotives" of this site, making the most of sughificant work and principal changes, while we (Errors & Omissions team) are only a helping hand.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping? 
Why are we still having this conversation? 
What is the mistake that I made?
 
We still having this conversation because in my (and, as we see in this thread, not only my) opinion replacing the name in all releases (including the old ones, when "new name" didn't exist) is a cataloguing error.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

What is the best resource of the band's line-up? (If not their official site and bandcamp). 
I think the one and only "true" resource doesn't exist. I guess the band uses new name on their official site and bandcamp in order to please their colleague. But old CDs, LPs etc still list the old name. To prevent confusion, we need both, old and new, names for the releases made before the change of the name.  

You can have both names like you suggested above. 

If they released CDs/vinyls and so on, have the name as written there. If it means so much, fine. 
Contact the band, ask them what name should be on the albums, old or new. 

If there are only bandcamp releases, have the name written on the bandcamp page of the album. 

The best resources is the band's official sites. That's why I didn't see my change as controversial. 
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:17
We don’t “need” anything. Because this was never an issue when PA was set up, there was never a policy made for this circumstance. Just as there was not for a site such as RYM - and as little as five years ago, they were still using a combination of dead name and new name. RYM now have a policy of not using the dead name, despite many of their users claiming they “need” to.

From a cataloguing point of view, I can completely understand wanting to use the dead name in addition to the new name, for any release that originally came out with the dead name credited. That is why I made the suggestion of taking the Wiki route.

But, as Cristi has said, if YOU want it that way, then YOU are able to change it to that. Cristi did what he felt was right, by changing the name to how it appears on any site managed by the band. I don’t think he was wrong to do that, and I don’t think you would be wrong to go the Wiki route, The only wrong option, really, is to keep using the dead name, and only the dead name.
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:20
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 

Well-mannered people usually clean up after themselves. Wink
But no problem, it will not hurt my pride to "go ahead". 

Oh, that is crossing the line. Cristi has been far more well-mannered than you, and has absolutely no need to clean up. There is nothing that “needs” to be cleaned up.

You may be in Russia, but if you were in the UK you would be breaking the law by the way you have been speaking. If you were in a job, you could be fired for the way you have been speaking. I know you don’t mean to be, because all I have seen from you in the past paints you to be a good person, but some of what you say is blatantly transphobic.
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😕

Edited by Cristi - May 22 2022 at 15:59
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Points: 7933 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:37
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

You may be in Russia, but if you were in the UK you would be breaking the law by the way you have been speaking. If you were in a job, you could be fired for the way you have been speaking. I know you don’t mean to be, because all I have seen from you in the past paints you to be a good person, but some of what you say is blatantly transphobic.
Fortunately some laws in Russia are slightly softer, as far as I can tell no one was fired for transphobic or "transphilic" views.

I think in case of PA only the fact of changing the name is important, but not the reason. All we need to know for cataloguing is when some musician changed name. Why - isn't important for the field "Releases information" on the album page.

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

From a cataloguing point of view, I can completely understand wanting to use the dead name in addition to the new name, for any release that originally came out with the dead name credited. That is why I made the suggestion of taking the Wiki route.
OK, I'll do this for cataloguing.

EDIT: Done.




Edited by NotAProghead - May 22 2022 at 15:48
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^ OK guys, now the debate is closed. I read all your comments. I didn't participate because I'm not comfortable enough to talk about sensitive matters in English. But I just want to say that I'm happy with the results, i.e. use the dead name in addition to the new name for relevant releases.

I also hope that you can all gather peacefully soon. Come on, as my students say: YOLO (you only live once). Wink
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^ Yeah and besides, a public subforum is not a good place for inter-collab issues.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Fortunately some laws in Russia are slightly softer, as far as I can tell no one was fired for transphobic or "transphilic" views.

Ok, now imagine instead of the word transphobic, you said racist, or religious, or sexist. Human rights are near universally protected in the Western world (though apparently not in Russia), and it is a crime to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex, gender, etc.

Would you be so proud to say that Russia is fortunate not to have anyone fired for their racist views? Because that really is no different to saying Russia is fortunate not to have anyone fired for their transphobic views.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Yeah and besides, a public subforum is not a good place for inter-collab issues.

If this were inter-collab issues, I would definitely agree with you. And if that is all it were, I would have long ago moved to PM, or to the collab zone. But, as far as I’m concerned, a public sun forum is entirely the right place for the issue at hand to be discussed.

The irony is that almost everyone is on the same page (albeit for different reasons), and this didn’t need to be an issue at all. In fact, Cristi was blasted because he didn’t see an issue, and just went ahead and made the change.

And if someone wants to air their transphobic views in public, I will pull them up on it in public.
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^ I propose to stop this trans/human rights/etc discussion. I can't make you change your mind and you can't make me change mine.
Additionally, let's also take into consideration that PA is an international site, its visitors are from different countries and may have different views on "sensitive matters". 

So I propose to shake hands and follow my teammate's advice:
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

OK guys, now the debate is closed. I read all your comments. I didn't participate because I'm not comfortable enough to talk about sensitive matters in English. But I just want to say that I'm happy with the results, i.e. use the dead name in addition to the new name for relevant releases.

I also hope that you can all gather peacefully soon. Come on, as my students say: YOLO (you only live once). Wink


Edited by NotAProghead - May 23 2022 at 14:27
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I was not trying to change your mind. Prejudiced people don’t usually recognise their own prejudice, and will continue to discriminate because they don’t recognise their prejudice as that. 

You can propose whatever you like, but do t expect me to shake your hand, when you pride yourself in your ignorance. As for trying to suggest that it makes a difference what country so,E one comes from. Sure. That’s the kind of argument white South Africans used to use when justifying their apartheid. Racism is racism, regardless of what country it occurs in. Transphobia is transphobia, regardless of what country it occurs in.

You don’t get to walk away from your bigotry, by claiming that you are from a different country. By all means continue to be a bigot. As you say, I’m not going to change your mind. But while I’m not going to continue with the discussion, it is because it was already over.  It wasn’t even a discussion that needed to be had. The only one who has made it an issue is you, so it’s great that you propose to end it. But that is not the same as shaking hands, and agreeing to disagree.

So you go your way, and I’ll go mine, and be thankful that dinosaurs like you will soon be extinct.
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^ No problem, I'll live without shaking hands with you.
Time will tell who will be extinct sooner, dinosaurs or fans of new "features". 
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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75270

Label: Tonzonen Records
Format: Vinyl, CD, Digital
March 17, 2022 (Digital), June 17, 2022 (CD, Vinyl)
Cover: DNS
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^ ok, done Smile
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^ Cristi, please note that when you update an album page through the main site, special characters are replaced by question marks. In this case, Mike Häfliger became Mike H?fliger. So you have to make those changes through the admin panel.

Thanks! Smile


Edited by projeKct - May 24 2022 at 15:19
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Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ Cristi, please note that when you update an album page through the main site, special characters are replaced by question marks. In this case, Mike Häfliger became Mike H?fliger. So you have to make those changes through the admin panel.

Thanks! Smile

I don't remember editing a line up from a German band, can you post a link so that I see what went wrong and then fix it. 
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^ Well, it was about 7 hours ago... LOL


But I've already made the correction.
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Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

^ Well, it was about 7 hours ago... LOL


But I've already made the correction.

I only fixed the release information, not the line up, I would have remembered. 
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