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Gordy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 09:43
I made a little mistake just now entering Emeralds' Live LP as a Studio Album instead of the very obvious Live (I'm still getting used to the submission process and sometimes I forget to check things). Thanks in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 13:10
^ Fixed. By the way, thanks for your regular additions to the database.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 13:38
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75274
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75275

are Single not Studio Albums, sorry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 13:42
Originally posted by mbzr48 mbzr48 wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75274
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=75275

are Single not Studio Albums, sorry

fixed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Moocanoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 18:54
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 00:38
Originally posted by Moocanoe Moocanoe wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne

Now this will be interesting. I know I would happily change all instances of the dead name, and believe it is the right thing to do, but I suspect PA may not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 01:23
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Moocanoe Moocanoe wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne

Now this will be interesting. I know I would happily change all instances of the dead name, and believe it is the right thing to do, but I suspect PA may not.


why wouldn't PA change the name? 
I'll do it a bit later, it's just simple editing. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 04:18
Originally posted by Moocanoe Moocanoe wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne

ok, I edited the artists name in the bio and albums/singles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 05:02
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Moocanoe Moocanoe wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne

Now this will be interesting. I know I would happily change all instances of the dead name, and believe it is the right thing to do, but I suspect PA may not.


why wouldn't PA change the name? 
I'll do it a bit later, it's just simple editing. 


Oh, I completely agree, and I’m glad it is recognised as being just that. I was worried simoly because of some of the transphobic comments I have seen in the forum, and that even now some people refuse to acknowledge, eg, Switched On Bach as being a Wendy Carlos album - and will only refer to the artist by her dead name for that record, as that was the name it was recorded under.

I was expecting there may have been an argument about “historical accuracy” and “whitewashing” and “airbrushing”, or similar. I’m very glad to see this has not been the case!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 16:48
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Moocanoe Moocanoe wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8702

The Lead Singer of the Band, Warne, came out as trans in 2021 and now goes by Shelby Logan Warne

Now this will be interesting. I know I would happily change all instances of the dead name, and believe it is the right thing to do, but I suspect PA may not.


why wouldn't PA change the name? 
I'll do it a bit later, it's just simple editing. 


Oh, I completely agree, and I’m glad it is recognised as being just that. I was worried simoly because of some of the transphobic comments I have seen in the forum, and that even now some people refuse to acknowledge, eg, Switched On Bach as being a Wendy Carlos album - and will only refer to the artist by her dead name for that record, as that was the name it was recorded under.

I was expecting there may have been an argument about “historical accuracy” and “whitewashing” and “airbrushing”, or similar. I’m very glad to see this has not been the case!


Transphobia aside, I think we should keep historical accuracy, i.e. write names as they are written in albums' credits

Cats and dogs know of mentioned Wendy Carlos, another example is David (now Dee) Palmer of Jethro Tull fame, who is credited as David on all Tull records (please don't hurry to "fix" this Smile), while in liner notes of later reissues there are expanations that later David turned to Dee. 




Edited by NotAProghead - May 16 2022 at 16:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tupan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 12:30
Full instrumentation for this single: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=74421

- Geordie Greep / Vocals, Yamaha SA60, Epiphone Masterbilt Nylon Guitar, Accordion, Silvertone Lapsteel, Gold Tone Resonator (Slide), Grand Piano, Hammond Organ, National Resonator - Cameron Picton / Vox Phantom Fretless, Upright Bass, Flute - Morgan Simpson / Ludwig Club Date SE Kit, Brushed Snare, Tuned Kick Drum - Seth Evans / Bechstein Grand Piano, Rhodes 54 - Seth Evans

it's weird, they put this info in the YT video but not in Bandcamp. 
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 12:43
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:


Transphobia aside, I think we should keep historical accuracy, i.e. write names as they are written in albums' credits

Cats and dogs know of mentioned Wendy Carlos, another example is David (now Dee) Palmer of Jethro Tull fame, who is credited as David on all Tull records (please don't hurry to "fix" this Smile), while in liner notes of later reissues there are expanations that later David turned to Dee. 


On the band's official site, only the new name appears, not the old one, re-written history I guess. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 13:37
You say transphobia aside, yet what you propose is transphobia - and exactly the response I was expecting, and so was so pleasantly surprised when Cristi went ahead and did the right thing.

It is called a dead name for a reason, and the person wants it to be erased from history, as it is a part of them they never wanted. When a person changes their life in this manner, they are entitled to have literally everything regarding their dead name wiped. I have a couple of trans friends, who would be horrified at the thought that someone wanted to keep the dead name in a space where it can so easily be changed,

They have changed their birth certificates, so the official registry of births, deaths and marriages recognises only the new name, and has no record kept of the old one. In the future, if someone who did not know was doing genealogy and searching them up, they would only ever find a baby born as a girl, with the name they now go by. They have contacted their universities, and their records there have been changed, and new degrees sent out with the new name.

As soon as an actor becomes an actress, or vice versa, Netflix, Amazon and the like change all the credits on their platforms. Wikipedia removes all mention of the dead name, except for in the introductory sentence where in parentheses it will say formerly [x], and all pronouns are changed in the entry to match the current chosen pronouns.

Yes, it is impossible to change the liner notes of what is already out there, or the credits on any film that is out there. But guess what, every new edition of the release (whether it be music or film or whatever) will have removed the dead name. That’s not even a new thing. It took aroind ten years to happen, but since the ‘80s any of Carlos’s albums that had previously been released under her dead name, have been re-released as being by Wendy Carlos.

It’s even easier in this day and age, where a lot of releases are only online to stream or download, with either no physical product, or the physical release is a limited run or print-to-order, allowing re-releases to change if necessary. And if it is a release available only to stream or download, then once the dead name is gone, unless you already knew about it, you’d now never know.

A dead name is called that for a reason. There is absolutely no good reason for PA to display a dead name. Wanting to match the name credited in the original release is not a good enough reason. It really is not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 15:48
Phobia means "an extreme or irrational fear". Obviously I'm not afraid of trans people. I'm not a "transphile" either, but that's not the point. 

I don't care how Wikipedia or Netflix or whatever remove "dead names", but there are still original records (videos etc) which have these original (or, in your interpretation, dead) names.
Imagine, you watch Jethro Tull video from the 70s, see Dee Palmer in the credits but don't see any ladies on stage on your screen. What would you think?

Once again, I still insist: we should keep historical accuracy, i.e. write names as they are written in albums' credits
This means keep "dead names" before the person made his/her coming out and use "new names" after his/her transformation. 
It's only the voice of reason. No more and no less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 16:10
Interesting discussion, but please let's be careful before accusing people...

From an archivist point of view, NotAProghead's position would be the generally accepted one. Not out of transphobia or whatever, but just out of cataloguing principles that dictate to record the data that correspond to the artistic production at the time of its production. Name changes afterwards can - and should - be included for indexing purposes, but this shouldn't change the original reference, only complement it.
Eventual new editions of a production, should not delete references in the original catalogue descriptions, despite name changes over time or whatever. They should just be added. Deleting initial/original names would be a cataloguing error!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 16:17
^ Thanks, that's exactly what I've tried to say. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 21:08
Originally posted by tupan tupan wrote:

Full instrumentation for this single: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=74421

- Geordie Greep / Vocals, Yamaha SA60, Epiphone Masterbilt Nylon Guitar, Accordion, Silvertone Lapsteel, Gold Tone Resonator (Slide), Grand Piano, Hammond Organ, National Resonator - Cameron Picton / Vox Phantom Fretless, Upright Bass, Flute - Morgan Simpson / Ludwig Club Date SE Kit, Brushed Snare, Tuned Kick Drum - Seth Evans / Bechstein Grand Piano, Rhodes 54 - Seth Evans

it's weird, they put this info in the YT video but not in Bandcamp. 
Thanks, done! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 01:39
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Thanks, that's exactly what I've tried to say. Thumbs Up

I know that it what you tried to say. And, sorry, it is transphobia. It is understandable, and I get where you are coming from. But in the future, the norm will be the Wiki route, and I think that is the route that PA should take. If it doesn’t, at some point in the future it will be completely outdated, because no one will be dong anything more than the Wiki route.

So that would mean that you would put in the credits for an album where the dead name was originally used as New Name (formerly known as Dead Name) - Instrument played. Anything else is, whether you are aware of it being so or not, transphobic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 10:53
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=45296

1. Up to You (7:45)
2. Part of Me (4:30)
3. Gone (7:44)
4. Half a World Away (5:17)
5. Who You Are (6:04)
6. Stand (8:18)
7. Vision Quest (12:15)
8. One More Sunset (5:39)
9. Power (2:55)

Total Time 60:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbzr48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 12:13
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=6841

1. Lux Universum Part I (0:59)
2. Autumn Sky (6:35)
3. Anything at All (6:13)
4. Universal Light (4:25)
5. Here and Now (5:10
6. Crying in the Rain (7:09)
7. Sojourn (10:19)
8. Nothing at All (5:56)
9. O Lost (5:55)
10. Ashley's Song (Sail On) (7:21)
11. Lux Universum Part II (4:13)

Total Time: 74:42

- Kevin Jarvis / bass, acoustic guitar (5), electric guitar (5), keyboards (5), mandolin (5), vocals (5)
- Clark Boone / lead and backing vocals, acoustic guitar
- Mike Avins / lead and rhythm electric guitar
- Dana Oxendine / lead and backing vocals, flute
- Frank Tyson / bass guitar (3), vocals (3)
- Rick Walker / drums and percussion
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