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HolyMoly

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Posted: March 08 2012 at 10:47

I agree with a lot of what's been said so far. so this may be redundant, but my take is that the term "progressive" itself already includes the notion of "post", It moves forward, that's what progression is. By definition, it embraces what comes after. If we generally agree as to what "progressive" is, for the sake of sanity (and the sake of this site having SOME definitive boundaries), then anything "post-progressive" should be implied, so long as it has some relationship to the "prog" that came before.

I used to get cheesed off about so many genres creating all these unnecessary demarcations that turn so many discussions into arguments over semantics. But I'm beginning to see their value - they really do help my brain to categorize the vast amount of musical band information that would otherwise be floating, unanchored, inside my head. (better wrap this post up, I'm getting carried away with metaphors). So things like "post-rock" do mean something to me now, and do provide some key information about the music that is useful to me. But "post-prog"... that might take some time for me to digest.

Edited by HolyMoly - March 08 2012 at 10:48

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progresssaurus View Drop Down

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Posted: March 14 2012 at 07:43

HolyMoly wrote:

So things like "post-rock" do mean something to me now, and do provide some key information about the music that is useful to me. But "post-prog"... that might take some time for me to digest.

I agree, HolyMoly. I suppose, that term "post-prog" was excogitated by somebody, which is deep in nostalgy for times of prog-pioneering and for first forms, typical sounds and instruments of early prog (some albums of Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Focus ...).

But good term "classic prog" exists for it. And it is reason, why term "post-prog" is unsuitable by my meaning. Prog is continuing by creative evolution into new sub genres, but it is prog.

Yes, I am in nostalgic mood also time after time. Relative often - and I must smile myself, that I am "conservative" fan of "progressive rock" paradoxically. Rick Wakeman's albums Retro and Retro II are sign for me, that I am not alone.

Big smile

Svetonio

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Posted: March 15 2012 at 05:22

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

EDIT: Also, if we call Discipline the album "post - progressive", imo it means "post" regarding only previous KC's catalogue, not British Progressive Rock movement in general.

Please, the post sometig era of King Crrimson started with Lark's Tongues in Aspic as a Post Symphonic album LOL

, each and every King Crimson album is post something, because they change in every album.

(...)

I disagree, because at Lark, one can hear a violin, a flute, an acoustic piano and a mellotron; Discippline sounds pretty new wave-like.

sleeper

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Posted: March 15 2012 at 06:19

adamhunter wrote:

Hey,

I don't mind answering any questions. Although I do feel unqualified to do so, I mean I am no expert.

In my personal opinion, I feel that a genre lives and dies with it's fans. if it's audience do not buy into the music, the music can not be created. That is simple economics, which I hate mentioning because ultimately music (especially prog) is art.

The terms (genre label) however, are coined by institutions. Record labels, journalism, radio, artists, promoters. in a attempt to market a product and create an audience.

These Institutions then form a canon of that genre. Encompassing what is and rejecting what isn't in that genre to create a formulaic, standardized blueprint of what makes up that genre. Which ultimately acts as a template for what we accept into the genre, in terms of new acts. (Again all this is accepted by audience - by buying into it)

What is very interesting about the Post-Progressive is, that a large number of Prog fans are rejecting this term. However, the music is popular, and selling, it has an audience. Institutions are still pushing this term.

As I said previously I am investigating if this in fact a genre. But what is becoming more clear is that the post-progressive may have an audience of its own!?! Although, that would be very problematic for me to conclude this so early into my investigation.

The hallmarks of post-prog. are the same as Prog they're just not as virtuosic and in your face. For example. There are conceptual ideas - longer compositions, treating the album as art, advanced production techniques, soundscapes, virtuosic playing. Which is all Prog influence. It's just not as blatant in my opinion. Someone could listen to this having not heard any classic-prog and not find these artists a difficult, marathon-esque like listen. (Again this is only an opinion)

I will check out those two Math rock bands, and if you have any more suggestions please feel free.

I hope this answers your question?

Adam

I dont know if your still watching this thread or not, but here goes anyway...

What you'll find with many of the bands you've cited as Post-Progressive in this thread is that many of them have been around for 20+ years and already have an established, extensive fan base. The problem with the Post-Progressive term is that it's being slapped on to bands that have been around for a while now, in some cases having made the same type of music for many years, and the fans, who have known it simply as prog rock, have understandibly thouhgt "to hell with that".

Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2012 at 18:37

Svetonio wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

EDIT: Also, if we call Discipline the album "post - progressive", imo it means "post" regarding only previous KC's catalogue, not British Progressive Rock movement in general.

Please, the post sometig era of King Crrimson started with Lark's Tongues in Aspic as a Post Symphonic album LOL

, each and every King Crimson album is post something, because they change in every album.

(...)

I disagree, because at Lark, one can hear a violin, a flute, an acoustic piano and a mellotron; Discippline sounds pretty new wave-like.

Larks is the first Pst Progressive King Crimson album, after ITCOTCK and ITWOP both Symphonic.

Never said post Progressive, because I never believed in the existence of such a label.

BTW: Having violin, a flute, an acoustic piano and a mellotron; doesn't make a genre, the artist makes the music, not the instrunts, Stevie Wonder used Mellotron and never was remotely Prog.

Iván

Svetonio

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Posted: March 16 2012 at 08:40

Ivan, I dont insist that mentioned albums would be called "post progressive". I just say that if we can call anything "post progressive", that could be a few worthy albums only - regarding previous catalogue of these (great) artists. So, I think that we maybe not will make a such a big mistake if we say that Discipline, Wet Car, or My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts or, to go more far, Remain In Light were "post

something.

Btw, I dont think that Wet Car is very first solo album by mr. Gabriel. I think his first solo was Lamb, although that Genesis logo is on the album jacket. I think that time Genesis was mr. Gabriel's vehicle on Lamb and tour. That's what I hear while listening to that album and live versions of it.

Edited by Svetonio - March 16 2012 at 08:41

Svetonio

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Posted: March 16 2012 at 10:21

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

BTW: Having violin, a flute, an acoustic piano and a mellotron; doesn't make a genre, the artist makes the music, not the instrunts, Stevie Wonder used Mellotron and never was remotely Prog.

Iván

I know Mellotron wasnt made for Progressive Rock. But, this is very different when you hear that instrument at KC's lp, than on mr. Wonder's.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2012 at 13:13

Svetonio wrote:

Ivan, I dont insist that mentioned albums would be called "post progressive". I just say that if we can call anything "post progressive", that could be a few worthy albums only - regarding previous catalogue of these (great) artists. So, I think that we maybe not will make a such a big mistake if we say that Discipline, Wet Car, or My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts or, to go more far, Remain In Light were "post

something.

Everybody knows that I'm a fan of GENESIS and Gabriel, but in no way The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is a Peter solo project.

Peter was responsible of the concept and most of the lyrics, but the music was as usual almost exclusievely done by Tony Banks with support of Hackett and Rutherford...Collins in lesser degree.

Iván