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Topic ClosedPlease seperate Post Rock and Math Rock
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:34
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Also speaking personally and not as an Admin, I agree with Bob. The further splitting of any subgenre (Math/Post Rock, RIO/Avant, Tech/Extreme Metal, Exp/Post Metal, Psyche/Space Rock, Jazz/Rock Fusion, Raga/Indo) is unnecessary.
 
If the bands being considered have diverged from the original concept of the subgenre then a re-think at a far more fundamental level is needed than simply splitting the subgenre - to the point of perhaps dropping one half of the subgenre completely.
 
Absolutely agreed to ... and if the band is so concerned about what their music is called, or what it should be ... well ... you know that's not a very progressive thought right? ... so why is the question and request even important?
That isn't what I said, nor would it ever be - don't confuse the adjective with the noun - a Progressive(n) band does not have to be progressive (adj) and not every band that is progressive (adj) is a Progressive(n) band.
What?
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Points: 65270 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:21
LOL   not all blue berries are blueberries 
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Points: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2011 at 15:26
The problem is that when for example Im trying to dig in a category (being a math rock and post rock fun!) and searching for highly energetic, crazy rythmicism, punky sounding math, I m founding the opossite! Slow tempos, simple rythms, walls of disto ambient sounds! please SEPERATE THEM!!!!!!!
 
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Points: 83 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2011 at 18:21
Originally posted by iliakis iliakis wrote:

The problem is that when for example Im trying to dig in a category (being a math rock and post rock fun!) and searching for highly energetic, crazy rythmicism, punky sounding math, I m founding the opossite! Slow tempos, simple rythms, walls of disto ambient sounds! please SEPERATE THEM!!!!!!!
 



Exactly!
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Points: 83 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 17:57
I actually managed to go through every band one by one to see which ones are math rock, and then give them all a listen. Took about 2 hours. discovered a lot of good music I didn't know about, my favorite of them probably being Cheval De Frise
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Points: 6 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2011 at 18:03

hei seb could you write down the math groups here?It could be helpfull, I also tryied to search every band one by one but it was before 1 year.SEPARATE-SEPARATE!!!
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2011 at 20:59
OK, so I like Explosions In The Sky, Maserati, and now Mono.  Which of the two are these?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 8703 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2011 at 22:08
Mono is Post-Rock. I believe Explosions is as well but I've never listened to them. Haven't heard of Maserati before.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2011 at 22:24
Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:


That being said, I've also heard at least one band in RIO/Avant that sounds pretty math-y to me (Upsilon Acrux). 


Definitely.
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Points: 83 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2011 at 11:16
Originally posted by iliakis iliakis wrote:

hei seb could you write down the math groups here?It could be helpfull, I also tryied to search every band one by one but it was before 1 year.SEPARATE-SEPARATE!!!




I didn't make a list of math rock bands, I gave everything that seemed math rock related by their bio a listen and kept a list of what I liked. So the best I can offer you is a list of math rock bands currently found on my IPOD. I included a list of mathy-RIO/avant prog bands. So not only are all of these math related, but they are personnaly recommended by me (keep in mind I might list a band of which I only enjoy 1 or 2 albums out of many) and some of these I discovered through related videos on youtube so they aren't even on PA yet.

Oh and these are 95% instrumental, I don't really enjoy vocals in prog music.

MATH ROCK:

Auto! Automatic!!
Battles
Don Caballero (a logical starting point for anyone unaware of the genre)
El Pin Meldou
Giraffes? Giraffes!
Japandi
Jardin De La Croix
Lite
Rumah Sakit (highly recommanded!)
The Shy Trafficker
Sleeping People
Té
Tera Melos
Time Columns


MATH-RELATED RIO/AVANT PROG:

Aheulchatistas (just don't start with the last one, it's pure noise and IMO boring as f**k)
Cheval De Frise (HIGHLY recommanded, every album!)
Upsilon Acrux (highly recommend everything except the debute album)


Hope this helped a bit

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Points: 65270 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2011 at 19:53
 ^ that's a great little list
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Points: 10619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:12
Originally posted by seb2112 seb2112 wrote:

Originally posted by iliakis iliakis wrote:

The problem is that when for example Im trying to dig in a category (being a math rock and post rock fun!) and searching for highly energetic, crazy rythmicism, punky sounding math, I m founding the opossite! Slow tempos, simple rythms, walls of disto ambient sounds! please SEPERATE THEM!!!!!!!
 



Exactly!

Exactly, they are two entirely different genres and both are fundamental to the future of prog rock, unless people want to keep repeating a watered down version of the 70s.
The only reason they are combined is that they come from the same generation in a similar point of time. Its not even close to precise musicology to have them combined.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:21
^ PA (a database) is IMO organized more according to library science (I was sured this would be "biblioteconomy" in English too but apparently that was a barbarism on my behalf) than to musicology. That means the inherent criteria provided by the info in itself (musicological criteria in this case) are used to create multiple ways of easy access to the info, of which a list of major categories as short as possible is a key element. Geek Tongue
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Points: 10619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 08:40
^ Thats a fairly confusing response. If you want 'easy access to the info', then you put bands of the same genre together. Mixing two entirely different genres together for people to dig through and separate by further reading is slow and cumbersome.

In other words, if someone is looking for a post rock band, looking at a list of post rock bands is far more efficient than looking at a list that combines post rock bands with bands that are almost the opposite and requires that people go into further reading to find the bands they are looking for.

Do people realize that these two genres are practically exact opposites of each other?
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 10:32
^ that's not true, like I said above in this thread post rock and math rock are twin genres both historically and stylistically, and putting them together makes sense (if a certain maximum number of main categories has to be achieved). I don't see why putting two things together is bad, especially if the pairings make sense: my library was indicating at entrance that Level 1 is for Periodicals, Level 2 was for Humanities (which meant that Room A had, in this order, Art History, then Aesthetics, then Literature; Room B had Philosophy, Social Sciences and History; you could enter the rooms through separate doors, but while inside you also noticed that the two rooms communicated and you could take books from one to get them at your desk from the other room); and Level 3 was for exact sciences. 

In order for my comparison to work 100% it would be needed to have a technical solution for when entering the Post Rock / Math Rock "room", the "books" from the two sub-categories to be placed in continuation, not mixed up - but that's PA's layout's fault. But if it is important to have 22 categories instead of 23, then I prefer to have Post Rock mixed with Math Rock and not Prog Folk or something random like that. However, I find it surprising that you find these two genres "practically exact opposite of each other", but you don't appear to have championed the split during your period as an admin, when you had the power to do it.  
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 11:07
^^^
Why can we not organize the way JMA is with a classic prog area and subs a metal area and subs a modern sounds area and subs etc.
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 32530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 11:14
Isn't math rock (at heart) just a sub-genre of heavy prog?  Couldn't the math rock bands just mostly be merged into heavy prog?  Question
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 11:27
This is about splitting further not about merging Rob. Wink And yes, some Math Rock bands are quite heavy, but so are many bands from Prog Folk, Avant-prog, Psych/Space, Kraut, Fusion, etc.

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

^^^
Why can we not organize the way JMA is with a classic prog area and subs a metal area and subs a modern sounds area and subs etc.


I think I might be willing to reconsider my proverbial strong dislike for the MMA/JMA layout if it got us more categories to do some further splitting. But as the admins who posted in this thread said, it's probably not going to happen (well maybe they'd reconsider their position, in front of an overwhelming user support for the idea?)
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Points: 10619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 11:35
Kind of silly for us to argue this as we aren't the ones who can change anything.
I wonder what is the rational for having such totally different genres grouped together in the minds of those who make these decisions.
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Points: 32530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2011 at 11:42
Originally posted by Wikipedia Wikipedia wrote:


Math rock is a rhythmically complex guitar-based style of experimental rock [...] It is characterized by complex, atypical rhythmic structures (including irregular stopping and starting), angular melodies, and dissonant chords.[2]

Now are we sure this article isn't just describing Rush?  Wink

Honestly, I don't see enough uniqueness in math rock as a whole for it to be separate from heavy prog in the first place (whereas prog folk, psych/space, etc. have consistent, distinct styles that are more than just "heaviness").  Math rock uses odd time signatures- so what?  That's a common distinction of prog as a whole.  It uses dissonant chords- likewise.  Atypical rhythmic structures- likewise.  The only thing math rock is...is heavy prog.

Am I wrong here?
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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