Death

It's a fight you can't win. For some this defines foolishness, for others it defines heroism.

Textbook wrote: It's a fight you can't win. For some this defines foolishness, for others it defines heroism.   It's all abstract though, it's like the "battle with cancer" thing, you don't actually fight these things in the conventional sense. You're at their mercy.

The T wrote: The people for whom fighting death defines foolishness are fools themselves.

Why? You're born to lose.

T: I guess you're saying your mental condition can help you resist cancer and death. I don't think it can, except for how a mental state can have beneficial physiological effects. But emotion/will alone, no.

Har: Interesting what you said about realising that you won't leave your mark because I went through the same thing. All through my formative years I was genuinely convinced that I was somehow going to have a very important artistic career and be a big deal, as a rapper, writer, musician, film maker and general artist type. I think for some people that is a sort of immortality or salve in the face of death, that you can leave cultural mark.

I spend a lot of time thinking or worrying about death.  Unhealthy, I know, but I don't think it's bad to be realistic.

The T wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I mean I accept it in the sense I accept gravity. That doesn't mean I should welcome it in any way. Apparently you got it right the second time. This is what I meant. Nobody has said "with old age you welcome death with open arms"... But you accept it and understand is a part of life, its end. You're ready to face your own mortality. Nobody with an inch of a brain would say that proper psychological development at old age is to want or receive death as a great guest. But you know and understand and are able to go on knowing that you are finite.

I thought you were saying something stronger. My bad.

BTW, I moved from my home country where the expected age of death for men is a little bellow 70 years, to a country where the same age is 10 years older. I hope that helps and it wasn't too late. 

JLocke wrote:   Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway. Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking.  Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to.

First off, I agree about the soul mates thing.  I just meant true loves, but chose poorly cliched words.  I don't believe in "soul mates" any more than you do. 

Second, what you say is very true, but naturally this man is in a very different stage of life.  Yes, at your age, you should be living for yourself, investigating stuff, not getting too tied down, etc, that's all good and healthy.  Your mind and body are primed for these things as they should be.  But its quite different to be 80 years old and suddenly alone.  This man is in no position health-wise to be "out there" on the dating scene, looking to meet new people, etc.  Some people would be healthy enough to react to the death of a spouse in the manner you suggest, but not all.  Further, whether you believe it or not, if you spend 5 decades with someone, your happiness is naturally wrapped together with them, if you love them.  I agree with you a person should not place their happiness in the hands of another, but surely you see that when you spend that much time living together, your lives blur and like it or not, you just *are* connected to their well being. 

For old folks who have moved beyond that stage of being active enough and mentally primed enough to rengage socially, I agree with you, they should.  For guys like my neighbor, it is up to those around him to brings some happiness into his life, encourage him, help him, etc.  But his prospects are not good and sometime you just have to acknowledge that and let the person know you are there.  For some in their 80s and 90s, that's as good as it gets, and as good as they might want it to get. 

Finnforest wrote: JLocke wrote:   Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway. Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking.  Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to.  First off, I agree about the soul mates thing.  I just meant true loves, but chose poorly cliched words.  I don't believe in "soul mates" any more than you do.  Second, what you say is very true, but naturally this man is in a very different stage of life.  Yes, at your age, you should be living for yourself, investigating stuff, not getting too tied down, etc, that's all good and healthy.  Your mind and body are primed for these things as they should be.  But its quite different to be 80 years old and suddenly alone.  This man is in no position health-wise to be "out there" on the dating scene, looking to meet new people, etc.  Some people would be healthy enough to react to the death of a spouse in the manner you suggest, but not all.  Further, whether you believe it or not, if you spend 5 decades with someone, your happiness is naturally wrapped together with them, if you love them.  I agree with you a person should not place their happiness in the hands of another, but surely you see that when you spend that much time living together, your lives blur and like it or not, you just *are* connected to their well being.  For old folks who have moved beyond that stage of being active enough and mentally primed enough to rengage socially, I agree with you, they should.  For guys like my neighbor, it is up to those around him to brings some happiness into his life, encourage him, help him, etc.  But his prospects are not good and sometime you just have to acknowledge that and let the person know you are there.  For some in their 80s and 90s, that's as good as it gets, and as good as they might want it to get.

Well, regarding the whole "soul mates" issue my wife and I do sometimes finding each other thinking the same thoughts and then speaking them.  It's really spooky. 

I lived life alone when I was young and really enjoyed myself.  But there really is something to be said for having a partner in a relationship where you can support one another.  I can totally understand how this guy's loss would be a grievous wound.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 12 2010 at 19:46