Kurt Cobain & "Red"

dropForge wrote: You already made the same point, earlier. Yes, we understand you, but we're "discussing," anyway. Next topic: White Stripes...worth a damn or not? {J/K!} Sorry, I'll bow out now. I guess I'm the only who who has repeated his point, or tried to make it from a different angle.... "I don't belong here, cried the old progger out loud...."

........Sounds of creaking wheelchair, shuffling carpet slippers & sloshing colostomy bag........

Of course, I remember when heavy metal WAS heavy metal, when rap was what you got over the knuckles from an irate tutor, when the word 'grunge' had no meaning at all, other than maybe what you washed off your car, when R&B mean sweaty dark clubs and bands like Dr Feelgood, not vapid watered down soul.....

Pauses to change oxygen cylinder

They call this new 'stuff' heavy rock or heavy metal? Hah! when was the last time you saw a spandex clad, flaxen haired god with a Gibson Flying V guitar, eh? Answer me that! Where are the 5 minute drum solos? The flash bombs? Where are the opening shouts of "Good evening Cleveland!" Whatever happened to audience participatory singalongs, including, if you were lucky....

Pauses to wipe away wistful tear

.... dividing the audience into the wild side, and the crazy side.......*

Breaks down into inconsolable sobbing.....

THAT WAS HEAVY METAL!


* anyone remember Saxon??????

 Shout it Jim, shout it out loud!

(Just let me turn up my hearing aid first.)

 Now, what were you saying?

Now THAT'S a heavy metal guitar!

bit of a dodgy stand, though!

EH..!! SPEAK UP YOUNGENS!!! WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT BREAST IMPLANTS?

I've given up and moved on to when God (hang on,  that was always Eric Clapton; don't anybody know their rock history round here),  Robert Fripp was  playing with the punk band  the Stranglers. Not forgetting he plays with Vai and Satriani here in the UK during this July.


However, just heard the good news that the nurse will be round soon to give you all your pills very soon. Pills to calm you down and not get you over-excited.

^ Hyuk hyuk. Har-dee-freakin' har har!

Not bad, actually. Pretty good, in fact....HA!

dropForge wrote: I've NEVER bought a RATM CD, but my brother is equally rabid about them and equally anti LP. At least somebody else can distinguish between a real rock band and a boy band/rock band hybrid trying to hitch a ride on the coattails of others before them.

No - my brother's musical tastes suck as well

So if you like one, you automatically hate the other? That's a generalization you've invented. Nothing more.

No it was a rhetorical question - the clue was in that funny squiggly "?" sign

My brother reckons that LP nicked loads of RATM riffs. I don't hear that either. If they did, then they improved them to the point that they created some very slick new ones! Hehe. I doubt it. I've yet to hear a memorable "riff" from LP. All I see & hear are uninspired rhymes, tired posturing and cookie cutter chord progressions.

I hope the nurse removes your blinkers

Exhibit A

I don’t know what set me off first but I know what I can’t stand
Everybody acts like the fact of the matter is
I can’t add up to what you can but
Everybody has a face that they hold inside
A face that awakes when they close their eyes

Exhibit B (strangely appropriate!)

I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn’t even matter

Exhibit C (Even better!!)

I've
become so numb
I can't feel you there
become so tired
so much more aware
I'm becoming this
all I want to do
is be more like me
and be less like you

Uninspired? Maybe I'm alone in thinking that those lyircs are pretty inspired for this day and age. There's a nice, slick degree of minimalism that cuts through the crap and gets to the point, but still keeps it subjective and personal to the listener. Being "In Yer Face" as well as "In Yer Mind" is quite a neat trick, even if it is somewhat superficial.

Compare with Exhibit D (RATM)

Huh!
Yeah, we're comin' back then with another bombtrack
Think ya know what it's all about
Huh!
Hey yo, so check this out
Yeah!
Know your enemy!

Come on!

Exhibit E (I'm not cheating - this is a different song, allegedly...)

Ughh! Hey you, it's just another bombtrack...ughh!
Hey you, it's just another bombtrack...yeah!
It goes a-one, two three and
It's just another bombtrack
And suckas be thinkin' that they can fake this
But I'm gonna drop it at a higher level
'Cause I'm inclined to stoop down
Hand out some beat-downs

Hmm. I don't want to come across all hyper-critical or anything, but this looks like complete bcks to me. Just my opinion, you understand?

Posturing? Can anyone say AC/DC, Metallica or Rage Against the Machine? Or any other "Hair" band you care to mention. Many prog bands - and bands who play other music... Hello!!! Posturing is what interesting rock stars do. If you don't like it, go see Coldplay or Travis.

"Cookie-Cutter chord progressions" - a mildly interesting but meaningless media term. Can anyone say AC/DC, Metallica or Rage Against the Machine...?  The term appears to mean re-using patterns or chord progressions and not pushing boundaries in order to remain popular. Nickelback are often cited as a prime example, along with just about every so-called R&B act under the sun.

If so, then Mozart wrote "cookie-cutter" music and so did the Beatles. They also wrote heaps of non-"CC" music, but that's not the point - the point is that there is nothing wrong with using a style or template. Even Beethoven used standard Sonata form on the whole. That's why the term is meaningless - if I use the progression A-D-E in a piece of music, that could be seen as "CC". The response is obvious - it depends HOW I use it.

To paraphrase what I said earlier, Beauty is in the (ear) of the beholder, and there is no right or wrong way to write music, although there are definite rules within cultures which create the boundaries that musicians love to push. People use cliches in music because they work - even prog bands. 

Not one of your criticisms stands up under close scrutiny, they just come across as cheap attacks based on personal opinion. OK, pot, kettle, black, but at least I do not confine my replies to opinion alone. If you have something concrete and interesting to say, I'd be pleasantly surprised, otherwise, my shredder stands at the ready 

MORE DRIED FROG PILLS OVER HERE, PLEASE!!!

Edited by Certif1ed

  MMMM, Korn, MMMM. Somebody pass me the butter, please?

Surely the multifarious (if slightly naughty) points I made were not missed? Those 5 lyric sections were deliberately chosen with tongue firmly in cheek, (but I'm not saying whose...) if, admittedly, a slightly acerbic attitude. The humour (and insults) were there to be found and giggled at - and there were some serious points. It's all in the mix, as they say! 

Pass the popkorn, danbo!

You want Korn lyrics - OK

I can take no more
What are we fighting for?
You are my brothers
Each one I would die for
Please just let it go

Does the penny drop?

I still find the term "Cookie-Cutter" music to be meaningless - it's just too easy a target to argue against - a cheap jibe for when nothing intelligent comes to mind.

Cookie, anyone?

I notice you don't disagree that RATM fit that description also.

Snobbish? Probably. But then I have my reasons. I don't like RATM, for a start...  As Jack Nicholson once said "The best form of defence is the attack without mercy!!!"

 

You see that Mariah Carey? That's you that is - she's, like, your favourite singer in the whole world - you've got all her CDs in chronological order; You love her - you think she can sing