Why not 4 and 1/2 stars?? Please...

TheSubhuman wrote: p0mt3 wrote: But I digress . . . perhaps I am being a bit harsh. I'm just tired of seeing nearly every suggestion given in this place hardly regarded by anybody as being serious. They're all just kind of waved away as foolish, then the Admins and/or my fellow Collaborators proceed to explain why PA is perfect just the way it is. If this truly is the case, then this section of the forums might as well not exist. Finally somebody who has seen the light. No suggestion here is taken seriously, and the result is that people have left the site in droves. But you cannot force people to listen to you. They will just point out, and not necessarily in a pleasant way, that either you accept things as they are, or you can leave - no matter how hard you have worked on behalf of the site. If anyone bothered to look at things a bit more in depth, they would realize there are LOTS of things that are in need of fixing, and the review section is only one of them.

Not fair, my friend. I never said anything of the sort, and if I came across this way, i am truly sorry.

I do not fault a single person here for their choices. After all, running a site like this is a HUGE job, and I'm sure the Admins do their best. Please do not think I don't appreciate what they do here for us. I was merely pointing out that at times they make decisions that confuse me, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

p0mt3 wrote: TheSubhuman wrote: p0mt3 wrote: But I digress . . . perhaps I am being a bit harsh. I'm just tired of seeing nearly every suggestion given in this place hardly regarded by anybody as being serious. They're all just kind of waved away as foolish, then the Admins and/or my fellow Collaborators proceed to explain why PA is perfect just the way it is.If this truly is the case, then this section of the forums might as well not exist. Finally somebody who has seen the light. No suggestion here is taken seriously, and the result is that people have left the site in droves. But you cannot force people to listen to you. They will just point out, and not necessarily in a pleasant way, that either you accept things as they are, or you can leave - no matter how hard you have worked on behalf of the site. If anyone bothered to look at things a bit more in depth, they would realize there are LOTS of things that are in need of fixing, and the review section is only one of them. Not fair, my friend. I never said anything of the sort, and if I came across this way, i am truly sorry.I do not fault a single person here for their choices. After all, running a site like this is a HUGE job, and I'm sure the Admins do their best. Please do not think I don't appreciate what they do here for us. I was merely pointing out that at times they make decisions that confuse me, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

I am in complete disagreeance with you, TheSubHuman.

The progarchives Admin and Collaborators are all pretty much incredibly helpful people, and I'd genuinely like to see proof or evidence of what you said. The PA admins are always grateful for assistance, and never "...just point out, and not necessarily in a pleasant way, that either you accept things as they are, or you can leave".

After 5 months, I've never encountered a problem to the likes of which you described, and I've never had a single complaint against the collaborators or admin in that time.

Evidence, or hush.
-Joel

npjnpj wrote: 1) 5 stars is fine. 2) If you're not happy, imagine you only have 3 and that's been upped to 5. 3) If there was a system with 100 stars, there would be people complaing that it's a) too much and b) still not enough.   4) I must admit it would be fun though to watch people agonising over whether to award an album 4352 or 4353 stars in a 10 000 star rating system.   5) If you're in two minds whether to award 5 stars or not, you shouldn't.

And there's the win of this thread!!!   EXACTLY!!  Use it sparingly folks, so it really means something when you do use it.  There should be no doubt in your mind whether or not the title you are rating is a masterpiece. 

And as mentioned earlier, I'd favor 10, but it's not likely to happen here.  It isn't that Admin refuses to hear the case.....they have heard it.....as has Max no doubt, and decided not to proceed with it.  These kinds of issues really shouldn't be harming your ability to express your opinion, that is what the text of your review is for.  You can specify there if you wish something like "7/10" or 3 1/2 stars.  People will understand. 

progkidjoel wrote: p0mt3 wrote: TheSubhuman wrote: p0mt3 wrote: But I digress . . . perhaps I am being a bit harsh. I'm just tired of seeing nearly every suggestion given in this place hardly regarded by anybody as being serious. They're all just kind of waved away as foolish, then the Admins and/or my fellow Collaborators proceed to explain why PA is perfect just the way it is.If this truly is the case, then this section of the forums might as well not exist. Finally somebody who has seen the light. No suggestion here is taken seriously, and the result is that people have left the site in droves. But you cannot force people to listen to you. They will just point out, and not necessarily in a pleasant way, that either you accept things as they are, or you can leave - no matter how hard you have worked on behalf of the site. If anyone bothered to look at things a bit more in depth, they would realize there are LOTS of things that are in need of fixing, and the review section is only one of them. Not fair, my friend. I never said anything of the sort, and if I came across this way, i am truly sorry.I do not fault a single person here for their choices. After all, running a site like this is a HUGE job, and I'm sure the Admins do their best. Please do not think I don't appreciate what they do here for us. I was merely pointing out that at times they make decisions that confuse me, but I'm sure they have their reasons. I am in complete disagreeance with you, TheSubHuman. The progarchives Admin and Collaborators are all pretty much incredibly helpful people, and I'd genuinely like to see proof or evidence of what you said. The PA admins are always grateful for assistance, and never "...just point out, and not necessarily in a pleasant way, that either you accept things as they are, or you can leave". After 5 months, I've never encountered a problem to the likes of which you described, and I've never had a single complaint against the collaborators or admin in that time. Evidence, or hush. -Joel

Counter-Argument: Can you find one change that has been suggested in this forum in the past year that was actually implemented? While the tone is not as aggressive as he implies, the fact is that this forum is more or less ignored in a practical sense, even though you can see an admin or two posting in most of the threads about how nothing needs to change.

Errr....  Wow everybody - remember I only asked for 4.5 not anything else (not 3.5, nor 2.5, nor2j nor 6 out of 100 or 4532 out of 10000) - merely 4 and a 1/2.

I agree with the sentiment that you can write "4.5 really", but you still have to click the circle, and the quondry (*how do you spell that?) remains - is it a "5" but 4.5 really or is it a "4" but 4.5 really?  Ummmm....

For all those that Agree with me - I can see there are a lot of you - DUDES!!!

Has there ever been a poll on this?  How about put your money where your mouth is - whoever wins the poll then that's what happens (or doesn't) - challenge time!

Finnforest wrote: People simply underestimate the stature of 4 stars and therefore overuse the 5 star choice way too often.  4 is not just a good album, it's a really GREAT album.  You just need to adjust your thinking to limit your 5s to those few albums that are truly special, that magical top shelf of masterpieces that is a very small percentage of anyone's recorded music collection.    With a little practice, you begin to realize that not every album you enjoy needs 5 stars.  It took me quite a bit of time to adjust to that, but now it is second nature.   Good luck I actually agree that having a 10 scale would make rating simpler, I just don't think we'll ever see it happen.  I think it would be a lot of work for the big guy.

Wise words matey, agreed. I do also think that the 3 star rating has come to be perceived as a lukewarm or damning appraisal of an album (It ain't, it means you deem it to be a GOOD record) Furthermore, a great many of us are certainly guilty of rating way too high i.e. those reviews you see where the author trashes 3 of the tracks as 'boring' 'ordinary' 'dull' etc and still lands a big wet tonguey 5 star smacker on the critter (go figure)

I have given extra half stars to albums in the past (as part of the body text) but on reflection I think the introduction of this feature would be counter productive i.e. the current rating system forces you to make a clear and unequivocal decision about how you rate the music and half stars would just blur this division. The description tags attached to each number slot strike me as being both well thought through and unambiguously defined. (God that sounds really sycophantic.....)

You wanna try defining one of the proffered new slots ?

****1/2 stars - Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection although not essential but less non essential than a ***

Once again I fear these debates boil down to what people really want from 'PA' i.e. do they want to make informed purchasing decisions based solely on a numerical rating ? (if they do they are credulous beyond belief) or do they want to take the time and effort to extricate themselves from the subjective quicksand that is musical appreciation ?

Blah etc

Slartibartfast wrote: If you want to split hairs for your rating or add qualifications to it, you are more than free to do that in your written review and explain why.  Helps you make your minimum word count (guilty but not as too much of a matter of habit). I'm on the side of not changing it because it's been in place for a few years now and aren't you messing with those who have picked ratings in the past by recalibrating the scale?

All the man was asking for a half star option between stars 4 and 5. It's not like he was asking for an entire re-working of the whole damn rating system. Sheesh.

p0mt3 wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: If you want to split hairs for your rating or add qualifications to it, you are more than free to do that in your written review and explain why.  Helps you make your minimum word count (guilty but not as too much of a matter of habit). I'm on the side of not changing it because it's been in place for a few years now and aren't you messing with those who have picked ratings in the past by recalibrating the scale? All the man was asking for a half star option between stars 4 and 5. It's not like he was asking for an entire re-working of the whole damn rating system. Sheesh.

+1 I don't see how this would cause anyone to have to recalculate anything. And I don't buy the slippery slope argument that people would want smaller divisions than half stars. That seems inane.

Just going to throw in my two cents while the discussion's still hot, I'm all for the half star intervals. There are several albums that I know are between the already predetermined intervals, most notably in the 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 star range, though I know I have a couple 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 ones that I could easily and happily change.

Edited by topofsm - July 29 2009 at 03:08

Finnforest wrote: People simply underestimate the stature of 4 stars and therefore overuse the 5 star choice way too often.  4 is not just a good album, it's a really GREAT album.  You just need to adjust your thinking to limit your 5s to those few albums that are truly special, that magical top shelf of masterpieces that is a very small percentage of anyone's recorded music collection.    With a little practice, you begin to realize that not every album you enjoy needs 5 stars.  It took me quite a bit of time to adjust to that, but now it is second nature.   Good luck I actually agree that having a 10 scale would make rating simpler, I just don't think we'll ever see it happen.  I think it would be a lot of work for the big guy.

I do fully respect what you are saying, and it makes sense - it's just that I do find it ever so hard to make my mind up whether an album is a 4 or a 5.  If it's less than 4 it's not a problem for me personally.

By the way I love this website - it's fabulous, and I don't think it really needs many changes, and I'm certainly not going to go off and join somewhere else instead.  I understand it's not easy to make changes (to get agreement with everybody is hard).

To be truthful, though, it's the personal reviews, though, that attracted me at first (ie the best bit) - a review of "Meddle" by Pink Floyd infact.

Cheers for your support all you Prog-heads - up the 4 and a 1/2 !!!