Best prog band

CrimsonKing wrote: Rain Dancer wrote: well, defending your band doesnt include by any means humilating whoever attacked them, and i dont think Robert Fripp was a relative of yours or something, whatever.  a relative of mr. drain mancer perhaps?

GO TO HELL !!!

  Who cares who started it?  - Let it go, or argue intellectually!

DoomHammer wrote: Wow, my first post and i find people fighting

Don't worry, DH - luckily, this is the exception, rather than the rule; the vast majority of those on this forum are more than able to hold a debate without descending to certain levels; hey, some of us can even use humour to get our point across, and there are even some who (whisper it discretely) will accept the fact that we don't all share the same opinions - strange, but true.

Those who do feel the need to indulge their 5 year old alter-egos generally do not stick around for very long (this could be something to do with the need for regular diaper/nappy changes, or possibly a result of an obvious testosterone overdose).

Anyway, back on thread:

Personally, I voted for KC, as they have been recording/touring for the better part of 35 years, constantly evolving (progressing, if you will), and you may not always like their output, but you'd never be bored by them.

Edited by Jim Garten

Jim Garten wrote: and there are even some who (whisper it discretely) will accept the fact that we don't all share the same opinions - strange, but true.

*GASP!*     

Jim Garten wrote: Personally, I voted for KC, as they have been recording/touring for the better part of 35 years, constantly evolving (progressing, if you will), and you may not always like their output, but you'd never be bored by them.

Obviously some people can't get past the "BEST" appellation that other people insist on using for these polls.  And frankly, the very insistence on using that adjective implies a not so subtle opinion that any music other than that made by "my best" band is less worthy than that made by "your best" band.

As I have stated before in this venue, when I see someone use the word "BEST" in these instances I just make the mental excercise of changing the word to "FAVORITE" and move on.  Obviously not everyone seems capable of doing the same.  And I'm starting to think that while my doing it furthers the interplay of respectful debate, that making that mental exercise may also have been a mistake.

In fact I think I am going to take this moment to plead to my fellow progholes that we immediately cease using that word "BEST" when formulating these little polls.  I'm afraid that I don't see the utility in the majority of these polls in the first place and to further the inanity of them by implying that somehow YES or GENESIS have more musical validity than KING CRIMSON or PINK FLOYD only increases the likelihood of acrimony as we've witnessed in this thread.

And further, if typing "FAVORITE" rather than "BEST" is just too much work for you, in either a mental or physical sense, you really don't have any business setting up a poll in the first place.

MAX and manni, since I'm assuming that one or both of you will read this post, I'm going to ask you to consider my words and consider making them policy, whether official or not.

NOW....

Garten, when I come home in the afternoon, I am more likely to grab a YES or a RUSH CD or even SPOCK'S BEARD rather than a KING CRIMSON disk for a number of reasons.  But "In The Court Of The Crimson King" was the album that introduced my tender little barely teenage ears to the wonders of Prog Rock, ever so long ago.  And because of that KING CRIMSON will always occupy a special place for me.

undynamically as always - 'Crow

I whole-heartedly agree with Stormcrow. Replacing Favorite or "fav," for those who hate to spell long words, for the word "BEST" or "Most Technically Brilliant," would or should reduce these pointless arguments over something that's blatantly a personal choice.

I voted for Yes, way back at the beginning of this thread. They are not my FAVORITE, but, they convey the concepts of "MY" vision of progressive rock.

Thank you Gandalf Stormcrow, another "war to end of the race of man" averted.

 ^ Right on guys! -- & furthermore, many of these polls are "interesting," but basically meaningless, unless one is a record company executive.

   As I said elsewhere, if you insist on writing things like "King Crimson suck!" then you can reasonably expect to get some outraged flak in return. (As an aside, I am always surprised -- though given the overall decline in language skills, I suppose I shouldn't be -- to find that most people don't even realize that "this sucks" is a very rude expression, which is sexual in its origin. "This sucks" = "This sucks c**k!" I don't tolerate the word in my classroom, or let my kids say it.

English is a very rich language -- there are many, many more acceptable ways to express displeasure or dislike than "this sucks."

It is so easy to always be negative, but it takes intelligence and guts to be supportive, or to look for the good. A general rule of thumb in the classroom is that every criticism should be counter-balanced by three bits of praise.

ANYONE can destroy or tear down -- few seem willing or able to create or build up!

Finally, Rain Dancer, as a collaborator here (reviewer), as opposed to an administrator or moderator, it's not my call to remove offending people or posts from the Forum. I can, and will, however, voice my personal displeasure, as I did above.

The Internet is a world-wide, public venue. Many people just aren't mature enough to represent themselves well via such a platform. If they wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper along the lines of some of the posts here, it would not be printed (besides, they'd likely have to supply their real name and phone # first), but on the web, it's just too darned easy to be ignorant toward others.

The internet can be a wonderful tool -- it can also, and far too often, be a poisoned place of hatred, ignorance, and plain old basic stupidity. Many are too damaged/immature/consciousless to use it appropriately. That is its major, unavoidable weakness.

That is this man's non-official opinion  -- feel free to disagree, but if you phrase it along the "you suck!" model, I will know how to regard your opinion.....

Edited by Peter Rideout

VelvetClown and Certif1ed:

Your emoticons are absolutely hysterical!  Bravo!!   

RainDancer and CrimsonKing:

As an administrator of the site, I strongly suggest you read the "civility" thread that appears at the top of every forum list, paying specific attention to my own posts, which give a pretty clear picture of what is "expected" here.  Suffice it to say that both of you are close to crossing the line into a first warning (and you only get one).  Ultimately, as one member inferred, if you are unwilling to "kiss and make up" (), you need to at least "put it behind you" (no matter who started it) and try to conduct yourselves in a more...civilized manner.

Stormcrow:

You are indeed correct regarding "best" vs. "favorite."  However, I don't believe this needs to be made into "policy"; if, as you initially suggest, people simply read the word "best" as "favorite," this should suffice.  I will consider posting something in this regard in the "important" notices thread.

All:

Storncrow's point is well taken.  In fact, as I was reading through the posts (before I got to his), I would have made the exact same point had he not done so already.

The word "best" implies something very different from the word "favorite": as Peter points out, this is not simply a matter of semantics.  And when the word "best" is applied to something in the arts (music, art, etc.), it has even less value than it has elsewhere.

No matter what word is used in the polls, they are, ultimately, about "favorites."  And, as has been discussed on many other threads, "favorite" is a matter of taste - and "taste" is subjective and "non-judgeable."  Thus, there should never be the kind of "dialogue" that RainDancer and CrimsonKing engaged in.

If a member chooses to say that a particular band "sucks" (which, I agree with Peter, is a word that should generally be avoided, but will not be censored), this is a subjective judgment - not a personal attack - and should be taken as such.   Thus, the response should not be "defensive," since no "offense" should be inferred.  For example, if someone were to say to me that "Gentle Giant sucks," my response would be "I'm sorry you feel that way; I think they are a really great prog band."  What other response is required?  However, if someone says  "Gentle Giant sucks, and you suck because you like them," that crosses the line into "warning" territory, and possible loss of member privileges.

The posts on this thread have generally been smart and on point.  Let's not denigrate into personal attack and unnecessary tension.

Peace.

Edited by maani

Why did I call some stranger in a BMW a w**ker today, as he accidentally cut me up on the way to work? Anonymity, that's why. If we'd have been walking along and bumped into one another, face to face as it were, it would have been apollogies all round, each party insisting that the fault was entirely their own.

Never been much of a CK fan myself but please don't feel obliged to launch into a vitriol diatribe at my expense. I you were here with me now, thumbing through my collection, you may be troubled by the scarcity of CK (only got Red and Larks Tongues, which I haven't played for years) yet perhaps appeased  by the Fripp and Bruford which abound. Either way, I doubt we'd end up in a slanging match such as the ones that litter this and other threads.

I voted Yes, 'cus it was "Awaken" that "awoke" the Proghead in me. 

Edited by raggy