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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 12:54 |
Pat, I think Cacho was serious when suggesting CSNY, and wasn't just acting on the basis of 'I like them, so they must be prog'. This way, we're going to run people off, if we always think they are the village idiots.
That said, this is NOT going to stop until a clear addition policy is made. I have reviewed more PR albums than probably anyone else, but every time I have clearly stated if and when they were actually related to prog. Personally, I think the category is good and useful to have, but it should have been much clearer-cut than it is right from the very start. As things are now, I am sure we all realise that the sky's the limit - and it's not going to stop unless we stop complaining, and take some affirmative action.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 12:56 |
and I tried to make clear to him on page 1 the 'truth' behind PR addtions. He got it.. this subject was closed as far as CSN&Y. He even asked for the subject to be closed
Edited by micky - February 14 2008 at 12:57
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31169
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 12:58 |
micky wrote:
^ yes Pat.... but what is Cacho to think seeing people flip out and go on about favorites and as you say...
I like x... . I like prog... so x must be prog. Sort of makes Cacho look like a dipsh*t when all he did was make a suggestion. If he wasn't the problem.. he shouldn't be made to feel as if he his.
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I'm certainly not here to insult our new members - like I said, it's more of a general statement, posting it in this thread was probably bad form. He also knew enough to suggest them for prog-related. Like Raf said, suggestions for PR is becoming more of a problem - perhaps a policy that closes the category to recommendations, as we've said many times the possibility of a flood of suggestions seems likely otherwise.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31169
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 13:00 |
Cacho if you're reading this...no offense intended whatsoever for you or your suggestion - as you can see these matters can be quite a point of contention around here.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 13:04 |
NaturalScience wrote:
micky wrote:
^ yes Pat.... but what is Cacho to think seeing people flip out and go on about favorites and as you say...
I like x... . I like prog... so x must be prog. Sort of makes Cacho look like a dipsh*t when all he did was make a suggestion. If he wasn't the problem.. he shouldn't be made to feel as if he his.
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I'm certainly not here to insult our new members - like I said, it's more of a general statement, posting it in this thread was probably bad form. He also knew enough to suggest them for prog-related. Like Raf said, suggestions for PR is becoming more of a problem - perhaps a policy that closes the category to recommendations, as we've said many times the possibility of a flood of suggestions seems likely otherwise.
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as I've said.. I don't agree or care for PR.. but we have it.. so we have to live with it. Raff is correct in that there is a problem with suggestions for PR.. but man alive.. the problem isn't with the forum. There is no guidance or guidelines FOR PR additions. I tried to spell out what I think the admins and owner are doing.. and I think I am pretty close to dead on. But the forum? They can't be blamed.. the additions probably look as arbitrary and capricious as hell to them.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 13:22 |
As long as folk is on the table, I nominate Cylon and Garfunkel.  Their unique brand of robo-folk has never been bettered or even equaled.  Seriously, though, CSNY is a killer group, but I cannot for the life of me find anything remotely prog about them.
Edited by 1800iareyay - February 14 2008 at 13:23
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 14:25 |
okay sorry !! for second or third time. I was wrong I was just wanting to see people opinions...although if they were all negative and I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me that Yes! let's introduce them but just wanted to know members and also admins opinions. I didn't wanted to argue a fight or anything.
P.S: I'm not a serious fan of CSNY I'm really of Deep Purple and I would have never said Deep Purple to be in PA if they weren't.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 14:33 |
cacho wrote:
okay sorry !! for second or third time. I was wrong I was just wanting to see people opinions...although if they were all negative and I wasn't expecting anyone to tell me that Yes! let's introduce them but just wanted to know members and also admins opinions. I didn't wanted to argue a fight or anything.
P.S: I'm not a serious fan of CSNY I'm really of Deep Purple and I would have never said Deep Purple to be in PA if they weren't. |
don't sweat it... sometimes things get a bit carried away. We are a passionate lot.. .just didn't want to see any sh*t slung your way. ooohhhh a Deep Purple fan.... you'll fit in here just fine hahhaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 11:01 |
 Peace?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 12:18 |
Peace!  Deep Purple fans are always welcome here  ....
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 12:28 |
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khammer99
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 157
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 13:52 |
Great stuff, not prog though.
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Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has
been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
- Terry Pratchett
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 38303
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 14:23 |
In my mind, CSN&Y is prog-related (i do associate it with Prog but that has something to do with the music I was listening to when I was young, I didn't think of Prog, and amongst the music I liked you'd find CSN and CCR, Cream, The Doors, Santana, Yes, Gryphon etc. so the music is asoociated based on childhood experiences of listening to and digging Prog and non-prog), as are Simon Garfunkle to an extent, and Donovan more-so. I would like to see CSN and CSNY here at some time under some category (maybe Prog Folk/ Rock Related), but under the current set-up, it's not something I would suggest.
A great deal of non-Prog music is prog-related, the question is how closely related is it, and how much of that association comes from personal experience? I think we might have a stronger case with the folk/rock and psychadelic the Byrds (for proto-Prog in this case) -- I mention because of Crosby's involvement particularly.
Interesting thinkg about CSN is that everyone I knew who enjoyed Prog bands also liked them; whereas, the same couldn't be said of classic groups such as Foreigner at the time in my experience.
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"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 14:40 |
Logan wrote:
A great deal of non-Prog music is prog-related, the question is how closely related is it, and how much of that association comes from personal experience? I think we might have a stronger case with the folk/rock and psychadelic the Byrds (for proto-Prog in this case) -- I mention because of Crosby's involvement particularly.
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exactly Greg. A GREAT deal of non-Prog is related. Especially the 70's stuff. When you get into how 'closely related' ..then we get into the dreaded 'if x then y'. It is in fact comparisons between groups. As far as the site goes.. it comes down to either you let them ALL in. Which would drive the more conservative elements of this site out of their mind.... and you know what.. .I would actually see their point of view on that. The other way is targeted additions... the way the site does it I believe. Adding those bands that those in charge of additions deem important or beneficial to the site. I just think clarification is due on the matter but that may be just me.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 15:12 |
Please check my post in the Cream thread addressing the same issues.. I think Greg is right, but lots of people here don't, and until a clear policy is implemented, PP and PR additions are bound to be extremely divisive, not to say disruptive.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 16:25 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 16:29 |
hahhahahah... peace and love rules...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 11:37 |
Ok end of discussion?!
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 11:39 |
hahaha.. I think so...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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sweetstrings
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Muskogee
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: March 29 2008 at 03:58 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Since you are rather new to the forum, I hope you will accept a bit of friendly advice from an old-timer like me. Whenever a potentially controversial band or artist is suggested, it would be better to refrain from resorting to the argument, "so why are X, Y or Z here instead?" This is usually something that annoys a lot of people, and can result in an outright flame war.
There is something called history to be taken into account, and history says that prog was born in England - which means bands like Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath, who were active in the same period and in the same country, had lots of contacts with members of prog bands (for one, Rick Wakeman played on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath), resulting in a mutual influence. The West Coast scene, on the other hand, was a very different story... Prog came to the US later, and in different forms.
Finally, I'd like to point out that, as you consider CSN&Y prog-related, there are many other people who think the same thing about, say, Rainbow or Led Zep. Music is not a hard science, after all. |
History could be a good a good adviser, but it is also known that Punk
rock originated in England, while it is said that the sound itself was
pioneered in America by The Ramones. It
is up to the listeners to categorize some music as progressive, heck,
even Robert Fripp rejects labeling as progressive the ultimate
incarnation of the genre, King Crimson. Why judge by their motives, their influences? And not just by the results themselves: the music we love? Same
happens in literature; point in case, existentialism encompasses
independent philosophical trends that developed in different countries,
and in some cases even collide to each other. But the term was applied
not by the authors, but the readers or the scholars. Suggestion,
open an "Prog Related Tracks" area, put Carry On in there, and explain
why, strictly musically speaking, disregarding the background. Besides, c'mon, CSNY must have influenced somebody by now; the fact is that the vast majority of prog bands focus on instrument orchestration and very few capitalize on voice harmonies.
Edited by sweetstrings - March 31 2008 at 18:13
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