Philosophy.

redbar89 wrote: I have a philosophy for my philosophy. I think one has to have proof for his/ her faith. Faith is important, but not so important and essential that it is sufficient to support itself. I have two proofs for my Christianity: A) If God wasn't real, why would 2 billion people in this world all follow Christ and profess that that he is alive and working his power? Why would there be a 10-figure following for a wacko with no supreme powers. People come to church because something is pulling them through those doors every Sunday. Teenagers don't testify in front of their skeptical and judging peers because they like being pressured. Jesus Christ is working each and all of his people to spread His news. B) Second, it says in Genesis that we are created in God's image. This is evident. We are clearly separate from all other living things. For example, we have art, literature, super-science and technology, and advanced communication skills; things that other creatures don't have. That being said, if that part of Genesis is obviously true, what reason do you have not to believe the rest of it...or the rest of the Bible for that matter? Find a reason not to believe the rest of the Bible and PM me. I really would like to hear. For those of you who believe in evolution and the survival of the fittest, tell me, how did dogs and lions and tigers and bears survive when we are obviously so much more fit than them? Logically, doesn't survival of the fittest asure that the creatures that come out on top should be equally fit? YES!!! Be enlightened and give your life to God!!!

*sigh* please do not start any arguments by claiming that you and you alone are right, especially with such insufficient proof. History has a rational answer to both your "proofs"

Hi Guys:

Just had to fall on this thread before the long WE. Another debate that has gone withoit me and will keep doing so..... so I will quickly give my two cents worth....

I agree with OliverStoned's first statements about life being a fluke. There are too many factors that there also  at stakes for an other intelligent life that managed to evolve and move out of our third rock/stone from our sun ( so I believe that we are also alone in the universe ) at least able to build spaceship.

The story of Religion and Brute Force (There is absolutely no special religion being aimed at.)

In pre-historian times, Religion was created out of our fears for the unexplainable and our questions about the unknown. Those ïntelligent and wise enough started answering those questions and realized quickly the power they could draw from their "knowledge" and the prestige of being a Shaman able to get the evil forces away. Religion then first became the "contre-pouvoir" to the Brute Force but those two often managed to ally to reign (the King always being given the right to reign by the God and this one being the first believer in the divinity). Soon, of course, religion started to ask for taxes/sacrifices as the King did with money. Both are now called politics. Religion has therefore lost credibility in the Free Man's eyes because of both its alliance with Brute Force and the fast-progressing science being able to explain the unknown other than by a supreme being and evil forces.

The actual clergies of any modern religion have been driven away from politics - since most consider these as philosophies (this is where Buddhism comes in but to me it seems that there are prayers , shrines , tempels, monks etc... just like all other religions) - and from power. This is why we are seeing Religions step backwards and going back to obscurantism (be it the neo-conservateurs or integrists of all kinds) wanting to force people to follow the doctrine/dogma " à la lettre".  It seems that in our increasingly multi-cultural societies , religions in the long-term should disappear (as to avoid conflicts) in favour of laicity (we do need some rules of good conduct) and maybe today, the same person looking for answers back in prehistory should tend towards agnosticism or even atheism...... This is of course not easy to accept that "we" are here (alive and on Earth) for no particular reasons(why do we reproduce?), and what happens to our soul without its lifeline (the body).... So I decided that I was here for fun.......

And I am going for the long week-end to my fave hideout in the Ardennes with a trunkful of wine bottles, prog records my best friends and some of the best looking women I know (that includes my girlfriend) .

promise not to laugh tooooooo hard when I give a thought about the suckers who have no such luck!!!!!

peace

redbar89 wrote: I guess I can distill my philosophy to this: I strive to do what I think is right during every moment of my life.

Thats a good thing to live by. sorry its just your other post almost implied you disrespected other peoples beliefs, i think i may have misinterpreted you. . After your first sentance i was sure i was going to have to chide an athiest for not being open to others spirituality.

HEY ReDBAR!!!!

My Mom used to go to Church but now she doesnt and says "its a crutch for the weak"!

The Bible is wrong at sum parts, for example:

Also my Bio teACHER IS LIKE "oMG hOW Can people believe in the story of Noahs Arc" ebcause of lots of reasons:

1)ALl the animals species(2x) cant fit in Noahs arc, WAY TOO many Critters (lol)

2) even if they did they wouuuld all kill each other and fight, plus penguines and other animals of the desert could not live in the same enviroment as Jungle cats and Spiders from aisa. Well the Ek0-system would mess up

3) even if u still bElievE, how could NOAH FEed ALL THOSE Millions of ANimals, and clean up poo (LMAO) and all that, it would take YEERS, too much work to keep millions of 2x every species alive and not killing each other

4) ANts Bees and other Bugs and some animals like gophers need more then just a male and a female to surrvive. THe 2 of every animal male and female is a male, lots of bUG COLONYS WOULD DIE WITH ONLY A QUEEN AND A DRONE THEY NEED WORKERS WHO ARE SEXLESS (LOL SEX) so that means the BIBLE LIES!!!!! 

5) IF THE ARK LANDED IN TURKEY how did penguines and stuff get back to ANtartika.GODS MAGIC POWER LOL NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Maybe the pigs flew like in Pink FLoyd!!! :)

And if all those parts in the bible are obviosly fake my mom says thaT OTHER parts must be fake too

P.s: IM GOOD IN sCIENCE CLASS I GET 80-90!!!!!

Ok, KPG, lets not argue like that, you can't just apply logical rules to the bible, that does not work. You should think about the main point the "story" makes and not question the unimportant parts beside it.

I don't believe in the bible either, but not because of those reasons. I am not religious, but i think a lot about philosophy. I think there is something "higher", but it's not a god, but some kind of "real truth". God is more a spirit created by humans, to use general rules to live your life. I appreciate that those rules exist, but i don't think they come from "god"..... they are made up by humans.

Sean:

Actually, no less a distinguished and respected person than Carl Sagan suggested exactly the opposite: that it is impossible for there NOT to be life on other planets - though what form(s) that life takes might be very different from life here.  He used straightforward statistics to point out that there are billions of stars in each galaxy, most of which have at least one planet or other celestial body in orbit around it.  And there are billions of such galaxies in the universe.  Thus, as Sagan suggests, it is not just the height of arrogance, but mathematically unsound to suggest that we are the only life in the universe - or, indeed, the only "intelligent" life in the universe.

Peace.

The evolution of a species able to reflect on its own meaning and purpose was most likely a mistake. Philosophy and theology are both facets of man's search for ultimate truth- a pastime as necessary and hopeful for us as a moth's desire for light and warmth.

Still, the moths seem to manage; I haven't heard of a big reduction in their numbers since their furry-winged prophets heard that first lightbulb filament sizzle...perhaps they simply continue to reproduce sufficiently to afford the loss of those on the quest for illumination.

I only pursued degrees in the field because of my Catholic dedication to self-torture, and a spiteful desire to make myself useless to society. 

The deepest, truest mysteries aren't happy things, folks. Luckily, they're not easy things to track down- you have to listen closely to conversations for the things people don't want to talk about and then figure out why. When we're closest to truth we're usually in the midst of tragedy. Few people have any ability to communicate it, or even to understand it on any sort of rational level (another reason why music and poetry are so important). I have real, fundamental answers that I could never explain to anyone else, even if I wanted to. Sound like a cop out? Sure it does. That's one way that truth continues to get you...by making you doubt the warnings of the people who have 'been there'. ("He stoppeth one of three...")

Philosophy and religion typically try to conceal or avoid the truth rather than make it better known.

Philosophy gives us complicated word games, elaborate logical structures that define and compartmentalize and send our thoughts whirling in pretty patterns. When Mathematics goes to the wrong side of town and has a one-night stand with Poetry, the illegitimate child is Philosophy. And we all know how likely those kinds of children are to grow up healthy and well-disposed. We're about as likely to find truth through Philosophy as we are to find nature by watching "Bambi".

Theology, on the other hand, is a keen sense of sight focused on something just out of view. Without knowing the details of what it sees, it uses the best of its ability to fill in the details. Once you know what you're looking for, it's far easier to see it (just ask the folks who have never met but agree on the description of the aliens that abducted them). Religion convinces itself that it already knows the answers, and the focus is on our relationship with those answers.

Religion works where philosophy doesn't simply because you can talk in religious terms to anyone, especially a child. No parent has ever used Plato to explain a rainbow. Children have as much susceptibility to religion as they do to colds and peer presure. When you're in the womb, you already have a God...and She's physically connected to you, providing you with everything you need (and no fetus has ever bothered to ask why). Sooner or later, you're cast out of this Ovarian Eden, and no angel with a flaming sword is necessary to convince you that you can never, ever return to that blessed state. So to make up for it, you have (if you're lucky) twin gods to look out for you for a while. It's not such a big step to transfer those feelings to something "up there" who watches lovingly or judgingly over you. Every religion ever practiced uses "Father" and "Mother" to refer to its deities...isn't that a bit of a giveaway?

Philosophy and religion are as ultimately pointless as anything else we've created. Can we find meaning in them anyway? Absolutely...but it will just be a passing truth that serves its purpose until we no longer need it. Unlike truth, we can find meaning in anything if we look hard enough. Same goes for meaninglessness. I highly recommend finding meaning in eating, drinking, breathing, screwing, and pooping. Also sneezing, farting, and the hiccups. You're gonna do them anyway- no sense leaving them out as so many religions and philosophies have done before.

What's really nice is if this meaning ends up including ways to make other people happier. An inappropriate belch is sometimes just the thing to bring a smile. An atheist who listens to a friend's problems is worth more than a million preoccupied zealots...but the inspiration for a single hymn of beauty justifies a religion.

I'm done (thank god!). I have to go take a holy crap and then make sure my furry angels have enough food and water.