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Evans 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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 Posted: August 05 2006 at 09:36 |
 TheLamb wrote:
I like Focus
So I decided to vote for Focus. |
So, then what did you do?
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 10:50 |
Evans wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
I like Focus
So I decided to vote for Focus. |
So, then what did you do?
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Uhm... Im not sure... I just figured we were resorting to polls that made no point whatsoever so.. There's no reason to trying to find any common-sense in my reply... Just going with the flow of posting meaningless things for no reason... 
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 12:17 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Also, please tell me that any of you enjoy the guitar tone found on Tales.
It is downright atrocious, not to mention that Howe's overall playing was at an all time low at the time it was produced.
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You have exposed yourself as a fraud my friend.
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:03 |
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I think Howe is great on Tales.
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Angeldust
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 336
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:06 |
It's still a mystery to me how is it possible to compare a band with a single album..!
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Kleynan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 720
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 13:28 |
As I think of it. It's not strange to compare them. The achivement of TFTO is huge! As huge or bigger than DT all together?
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 16:10 |
micky wrote:
hahah... if you gave... TFTO one star.... you have no business reviewing albums.... look forward to my forthcoming DT review for the proper way to review an album you don't like....
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I agree, no way Tales can be considered a one star album. I'm looking forward to this incredibly hyped Dream Theater review. It should be...interesting.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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The Green Tank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 244
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:25 |
Tales, for sure. Probably beats all of Dream Theater's totaly dicography, not that it's BAD! 
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:28 |
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sig
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 17:54 |
as always the results fall short of the hype.. especially since my
reviewing skills are not as good as I would like. I'm fair but
not as good as I'd like.. especally compared to reviewers I admire like
Ghost Rider and CertIfied. I haven't picked a style I like yet. I
have 20 odd reviews with about as many different styles in reviewing
them. I tried to just briefly give a synopsis, and a vibe for the
'Oxygene' and 'Voyage 34' and then went the track by track route for De
De Lind's 'Io Non So Da Dove Vengo e Non So Dove Mai Andrņ, Uomo
e' il Nome Che Mi han Dato'. I'm not sure which I prefer yet..
don't get your hopes up for anything earthshattering
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 18:09 |
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians. 
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad,
but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other
"complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's
lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a
lyrics person to begin with.
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas.
It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of
transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar
tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's
flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have
a problem being bashed.
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of
"most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 18:26 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians.
Howe himself said that much of his best playing was on Tales. He should know and aside from that, he is one of the most creative guitar players that has ever lived.
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad, but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other "complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a lyrics person to begin with.
Again subjective
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas. It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have a problem being bashed.
you have to listen to it many many many times to get it
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of "most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
I think Micky will give a fair representation of the work.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:30 |
Space reserved for Micky to right some rubbish.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:35 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
The fact that you people like Howe's playing on that album make me wonder how many of you are musicians.
oh jesus christ not the 'I'm a musician so my
opinion is better than yours' logic. Look at my review of the
album and see why that kind of logic (and your rating of it) stinks
like sh*t, looks like sh*t, and tastes (theoretically of course )
like sh*t. Prog is art... you do not have to be an artist to appreciate
art. A quality review would have noted whether you liked it
or not, THEN noted that the album is far more ambitious, grand in
scale, complex, and of course famous than most albums in prog. Thus
rated it accordingly. Find me 10 albums in ALL of prog that
represent what prog is all about more than that album and I'll have
YOUR frickin children ahhahah. It's an essential 5 star album by
any criteria short of whether Joe Six-Pack reviewer likes it or
not. Love an album, hate an album... who really cares.
Taste is personal and if you go into a review with only that in
mind.... only you and your circle of pals are going to care about the
10 to 15 minutes that you just wasted. People want to know about
an album and where it fits in the grand scheme of things prog. Should
they buy it? Whether you like it or not isn't going to change that. Oh
yeah.. I've been a musician for 20+ years....and you'd never know
it.. because it doesn't matter a damn bit. Nothing personal by
the way.... just venting hahahha
Either way, the band was worse without Bruford, not that White is bad,
but Bruford was a better fit. I don't fit in with a lot of the other
"complainers" of that album, in the sense that I don't mind Anderson's
lyrics/vox becuase he's always been an odd ball. I'm not really a
lyrics person to begin with.
agreed that with Bruford Yes was at another level
but that's immaterial to the review... White's work on The
Ancient though... more adventurous than anything Bruford did with Yes..
so I don't buy no Bruford ..crappy album.
The album I compare to a painter splashing colors around on a canvas.
It might look cool but it is not very coherent and their is a lack of
transition. This combined with what I feel is one of the worst guitar
tone's in the history of music, (it is so thin, almost sounds like he's
flat on every note) is what gets me. But, to each his own, I don't have
a problem being bashed.
EXACTLY the point I made in my review....
what you fail to see is that art hits all of us differently..what is
sh*t to you.. is the thing of beauty to others... a point made in my
review. Where you are being presumptuous is assuming.. due to
your vaunted musical skills ... that your interpetation is the right..
or only way. Prog is supposed to challenge the listener.. when
you challenge a listener.. and few albums do that as this one does..
.people get lost.. as you did it appears. No shame in that.. but
recognize the highest expression of prog ...while it's biting you on
the ass....
And I am looking forward to this DT review, so I can lose the title of
"most-hated" DT reviewer as I was aptly given in the abuse section.
pfff... if you don't know my feelings about
DT by now.. you're either new.. or put off by me to the point where you
do give a flip about what I'm writing hahhaha
As I posted in the collab section (spoiler warning)... I will be giving
it 2 stars.... for me personally (there were small parts I liked)
.... and 5 stars (for the site and the official rating I would award
the album) because whether I like it or not... it's a masterpiece and
an essential album of prog-metal.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:36 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 19:54 |
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hahhaha... you know me too well... which is scary... sorry about
the language... emoticons for the pounding my computer desk
suffered in the writing of that...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 20:02 |
@micky
If I was going to rate things by what is essential because it was prog
and what isnt essential based on that then reviewing would be
completely pointless. For example, my DSOTM review. Everyone has heard
it, so that means it should automatically be rated 5 stars? No. It
doesn't. It's dumb because that would mean I might have 3 and 2 star
albums I like more than 5 star albums. That's not really fair to me or
to people reading my reviews. Reviews are always going to be
subjective, no matter how objective you attempt to make them. Reviews,
like music, are not a science.
Example. Everyone likes the movie Gladiator. Or pretty much everyone.
Let's suppose I don't like it, and I have reasons why other than, "the
film is bad". Should I just go tell my friends to see it because
everyone else likes it? No. That's what happens in the pop and
mainstream world. You tell people to listen to things because everyone
else has and everyone else likes it therefore you should like it too
and listen to it.
Also, I never accused any specific person of being or not being a
musician, it was a general statement not directed at anyone, it was
also more or less a sarcastic comment, maybe I should write sarcasm in
big bold letters next time. 
As to you wanting albums with scope? There are plenty of bands that
release long "journey-like" songs. I'm not going to be able to find 10
prog albums because you have already limited yourself to that one
album, regardless of what I have already found or might find in the
future. You should rate the DT album with how you feel it is as an
album, and not rate it because all the prog-metal fanboys like it. I
rate with my heart, not with what people tell me I should rate
something.
@sacred
You say I am subjective, yet your first response is entirely subjective
calling him one of the most creative guitarists that ever lived. I
could name 100 guitarists I think are more creative than him, and guess
what, that's subjective too. So your subjectivity is ok and mine is
not?
As for the album? I've listened to it about 10 times over the course of
2/3 years. It's not like I just listened to it yesterday. Maybe "I just
don't get it" as some of you say, and then again, maybe you "get it too
much". No one can ever really prove either. Anyway, I am much happier
listening to CTTE, Fragile, and Relayer, which I consider Yes's best
works.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 20:25 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
@micky
If I was going to rate things by what is essential because it was prog
and what isnt essential based on that then reviewing would be
completely pointless. For example, my DSOTM review. Everyone has heard
it, so that means it should automatically be rated 5 stars? No. It
doesn't. It's dumb because that would mean I might have 3 and 2 star
albums I like more than 5 star albums. That's not really fair to me or
to people reading my reviews. Reviews are always going to be
subjective, no matter how objective you attempt to make them. Reviews,
like music, are not a science.
valid points.... and reasonable stated..
so....blue font hahaha.... Let's take your DSOTM album for example...
there is not consensus that DSOTM is an essential prog album.. I do not
think so and others do not as well. It was commerically sucessful
yeah... it had a concept that was not particularly earth shattering and
musically.. well that was never Floyd's strong suit. One good
guitarist and 3 average musicians.. the sum was truly greater than the
parts but I digress.. what is essential IS open for
question. Of course you would talk about whether an album hits
you or not... but there are only a handful of album that I think are
ESSENTIAL without question. DSOTM is not one.. and neither is
TFTO... too many people dislike it. Lord knows I got on my high
horse with you.... like you really give a flip about me telling you how
to review hahahha ...however..
consider my post not directly totally at you but an open invite to
consider shifting the emphasis of reviews from petty likes and dislikes
(where I'll stand by me saying that FEW TO NONE care if you liked it or
not) to where the album fits within prog. Was it
inventive.. original.. is it important (even though I may not have
liked it) for people to hear. I think that would make reviews
much more effective than the vanity display that they are now for the
most part. Might be a pipe dream... but hey... why not broach the
subject....
Example. Everyone likes the movie Gladiator. Or pretty much everyone.
Let's suppose I don't like it, and I have reasons why other than, "the
film is bad". Should I just go tell my friends to see it because
everyone else likes it? No. That's what happens in the pop and
mainstream world. You tell people to listen to things because everyone
else has and everyone else likes it therefore you should like it too
and listen to it.
Also, I never accused any specific person of being or not being a
musician, it was a general statement not directed at anyone, it was
also more or less a sarcastic comment, maybe I should write sarcasm in
big bold letters next time.
hahaha just do what I do... cultivate a reputation for scarcasm and smartassery
As to you wanting albums with scope? There are plenty of bands that
release long "journey-like" songs. I'm not going to be able to find 10
prog albums because you have already limited yourself to that one
album, regardless of what I have already found or might find in the
future. You should rate the DT album with how you feel it is as an
album, and not rate it because all the prog-metal fanboys like it. I
rate with my heart, not with what people tell me I should rate
something.
my review will in part be an insight into an
older proggers thoughts about 'new prog' and why I dislike it so.
It is far removed from what prog was all about... that is the angle of
my review. I think my system of giving two ratings works well....
if anyone actually did care what I though of an album personally.. it's
out there... but for the site at large... it is and should be
different. I use the example of the Live Magma album from
Bruxelles 1971 that I reviewed. LOVED it... however to
award any more than 2 stars for an album that NO ONE outside of a Magma
fan would buy or maybe even like is assinine. So I give split
ratings... works well for me.. and may be...presumptuous hahahha of me too say.. .but would like to see others adopt it.
anyway... like I said ...nothing personal.... just using your
post as a framework to pound out some things I feel quite strongly
about...
@sacred
You say I am subjective, yet your first response is entirely subjective
calling him one of the most creative guitarists that ever lived. I
could name 100 guitarists I think are more creative than him, and guess
what, that's subjective too. So your subjectivity is ok and mine is
not?
As for the album? I've listened to it about 10 times over the course of
2/3 years. It's not like I just listened to it yesterday. Maybe "I just
don't get it" as some of you say, and then again, maybe you "get it too
much". No one can ever really prove either. Anyway, I am much happier
listening to CTTE, Fragile, and Relayer, which I consider Yes's best
works.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 21:02 |
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No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded
reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's
therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to
many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 22:46 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
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We are all entitled to our subjectivity. That being said, I do think that Yes were forced to take a different direction with the addition of Alan White to the band and some feel that comprimises were made as a result. I am one of those, but his work on Tales is not bad really and his work on Relayer stands out as well.
As far as Steve Howe goes. He basically took the band from nowhere to stardom when he showed up on the third album. I used to be in the music business and I have met many musicians especially guitar players. Not one of them thinks Howe is anything less than masterful.
I do know one guy who likes DT and has even learned to Shred. Hey, he is pretty good. He will say, "Howe can't shred like me." I'll say, "can you write like Howe." We get together and all he wants to hear is music with shredders. I now realize he has trouble appreciating music for music's sake even though he calls himself a musician and can play a mean guitar.
Reviews that lean too heavily in the subjective dept. tend to be misleading. That's why I have trouble with your rating of Close to the Edge and Topographic Oceans. Both works are considered master works by any description and to give Tales one star and CttE five is very misleading and as a result I would have trouble using your review as a guide line unless I had the same subjective tastes as you. This could be useful for some but I think more care should be excercised in how ratings are dished out. You may not like Barry Bonds, but to say he a lousy baseball player is just plain wrong if you get my drift.
I do thank you for not being afraid to speak your mind.
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Dream Theater vs Tales From Topographic Oceans
