Is the Middle East going to war? |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 03:26 | |||
Not top of the pile on TV news by any means, but this story takes the lead on the BBC website. Israeli air strikes have struck the PA Interior ministry, incurring the first fatality since the incursion began. The UN is also warning of an imminent humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
BBC Report Edited by Blacksword - June 30 2006 at 03:27 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 13 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1356 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 03:51 | |||
As awful as such acts are, the word "cowardice" hardly applies. |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 05:20 | |||
I would agree. Cowardice is nothing to do with these acts. It's a case of religous psychosis, blatant insanity or at best psychopathy, that drives these actions. These people are nothing in this life, but their mental illness leads them to believe they may be something in the next. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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imoeng
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 03 2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 2450 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 07:34 | |||
The best thing is, to give all of the Dream Theater, well, prog CDS, to each of them... Then all of them have to write reviews, peace upon earth..
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 08:53 | |||
According to Wikipedia "Someone who attacks and/or kills a defenseless person is also considered a coward." Blowing up people who are in public mourning over a loved one would apply. I stand by my original assessment.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 09:39 | |||
The UN is ALWAYS warning about the latest humanitarian crisis in Gaza. No money for food, but money for Qassam rockets and automatic rifles? Please.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 10:11 | |||
I dont think money is the issue. It's more a case of food and medical supplies not getting through. Attacking civillian infrastructure is not going to achieve anything but a potential worsening of the problem. Besides Nets, it's not the entire population of Gaza building rockets and dealing out death. Whether you like to admit it or not the extremists are a minority. As for the rockets, I wouldn't be surprised if their conponant parts were donated from an outside source. Syria perhaps. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 10:33 | |||
Good point, the Syria-Iran axis is responsible for much of the terror, they are the ones who control Hizbullah, and partially Hamas. Whether or not the extremists are a minority, a democratically elected Hamas party is a tacit approval from the Palestinian people of their tactics.
Food and medical supplies don't get through because every time Israel opens the Rafah crossing, they have to close it because of a terror threat. The crossings are frequent targets, and while I sympathize with the majority of the Pales population suffering, its understandable to see why the borders are always closed. I think the term humanitarian crisis is overused in this conflict, while I don't doubt there are temporary ones, the UN basically considers it a continuous one, which doesn't make sense in light of the fact that Palestinians have a life expectancy comprable to that in the USA.
I thought this was an interesting editorial; a critique of Palestinian leadership, not the people:
Edited by NetsNJFan - June 30 2006 at 10:43 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 13:17 | |||
^ That is an interesting read. Thanks for sharing it Nets.
There have always been problems with Palestinian leadership, and it's a tragedy for the peace process that Hamas were elected to power. There are gains to be made by both sides using propoganda and portraying themselves as the sole victims in the conflict. The situation is complicated, and I fear one without end or solution. A two state solution seems like a positive idea, but it wouldn't alter the fact that much of the Arab world wants an end to Israel. It also wouldn't alter the fact that there are rabid right wing Jewish elements who see expansion beyond current borders - however ill defined - as essential to establish Israel as the world leaders after the 'apocalypse war' Thankfully adherence to religous prophecy is not 'apparently' the goal of the Israeli government. That said, western style democracies are able to dress up their more cotraversial agendas in a far more palatable and marketable form than their Arab/Muslim counterparts. Peace may be the ultimate goal of innocent people on both sides, but these folk dont call the shots. Even in a democracy, power corrupts and extreme elements will persist on both sides. I fear for the future of that region. I agree, to an extent, that the term 'Humanitarian crisis' is used alot by the UN in relation to the Palestinian position. Their predicament is clearly not on the scale of say, that witnessed in Darfur or Rwanda, but the potential is there for the crisis to reach a point, where damage to civillian infrastructure could lead to a complete collapse of the PA. That would not solve anything. It would merely inspire more terrorism. I believe Israel needs to do everything in its power to maintain and promote the moral high ground. Terrorism is, after all, abhorant in all its forms. Their current action undermines their credibility IMO. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 13:28 | |||
Nets: Thanks for posting that article, it was a fascinating read.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 14:22 | |||
Blacksword: I agree, the recent events are most unfortuanate for both sides. I do feel, however that it could have been avoided. Had the Int'l community pressured Hamas to stop the rocket fire from Gaza, there would have been no invasion. The again, it isn't like the Hamas government ever listens to the world, they wouldn't now.
I've been trying to think of another way Israel could have stopped the Qassam attacks, and I'm stumped. Any ideas Blacksword?
(I know this is being framed in context of the kidnapping, but it is really about the Qassam rocket fire on Sderot, for which the PM, MoD were getting roasted by the public).
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crimson thing
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 28 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 848 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 14:43 | |||
Whether or not you agree with their assessment, you won't stop the Palestinians attacking Israel as long as they believe they're trying to regain their own land. What do they have to lose? And it's not as if there are any counter offers on the table.......after all, how would you feel if someone invaded & occupied the whole of the US.......but expected you to feel grateful that you were offered back Montana & RI as full & final settlement.........
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"Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 16:13 | |||
I know, Crimson I do understand their viewpoint. They have been victims of History, pawns between the Arabs and the Israelis. Nonetheless, they do have something to lose, the Gaza Strip, which they've now lost. My problem is that this conflict isn't about the territories, it's about Israel proper. The Palestinians already have close to 78% of Mandatory Palestine, with the Jews having 17%. This conflict isn't about the 5% that are the territories, it is about the 17% occupied by the Jews. The PLO was founded in 1964, before the territories were occupied.
There has been offer after offer after offer, all turned down. Olmert is offering a full withdrawal from 90% of the WB, with negotiations to determine the remainign 10%. What is the problem with this offer? Is it that they don't want the Israelis to leave?
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: June 30 2006 at 16:49 | |||
Update:
Typical UN is at it again; not a peep over 400,000 dead in Darfur. But the Gaza incursion, where I think 6 people have died, denotes a special session of the Security Council. Give me a freaking break.
The UN always does this, it always has its two perennial issues. 1) Israel 2) whatever else there is time for before lunch. Edited by NetsNJFan - June 30 2006 at 16:52 |
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spacecraft
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 184 |
Posted: July 01 2006 at 20:41 | |||
For too long, the Palestinians have been run by terrorists, who do not want peace at any cost. Hamas are always going to be a problem and i hope Israel will deal with them in their usual cold blooded efficiency. The US and the Eu will stand by, but spout their usual mutterings, whilst allowing the Israelis to protect their own, as it should be.
Much is made of the Israeli insurgence into the Gaza strip, bombs dropping here, innocent people killed there. But, hardly anyone blinks an eye when the obnoxious, ignorant and arogant race ( not England, but the Arabs, and Palestinions in particular) kill Jews.
The only way there will be peace in the middle east is when the Palestinions realise that Israel is here to stay, and will, quite rightly, defend itself in any way it wants.
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Root_Pepper
Forum Groupie Joined: June 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Posted: July 01 2006 at 20:54 | |||
I'll try and not be critical, but I cannot BELIEVE the overwhelming and
unnecessary force used by Israel in this current conflict. They are
being the bullies in this situation, despite the medias attempt to
victimize them - while simultaneously demonizing Hamas. I understand
that Hamas is not the most angelic of organizations, but there is no
right of Israel in arresting the Paelstinian government members. If
Hamas entered Israel and arrested their leaders, there would be
worldwide outrage. I know it's dangerous to say negative things about
Israel, especially without recieving criticism, but they are really
adding fuel to this fire right now. A new type of world war is on the
breach, especially with these multiple Middle Eastern struggles adding
up (Iraq, Iran, Israel, Afghanistan...)
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: July 01 2006 at 22:19 | |||
What overwhelming force? The number of casualties can be counted on one hand...
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Root_Pepper
Forum Groupie Joined: June 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Posted: July 01 2006 at 23:30 | |||
It's not the casulties that count, it's the sheer firepower they've
brought in. It's the destruction of power plants removing safe water
supplies or reliant electricity throughout Gaza. It's the shock and awe
tactics that have Palestinians hiding in their homes. It's these
actions that breed terrorism.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: July 01 2006 at 23:43 | |||
I disagree. I think the power plant attack was a mistake in retrospect, but terrorism is endemic to Palestinian culture. Israel faced constant terrorism from Palestinian factions (egged on by Egypt and Syria) way before it occupied the territories.
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Root_Pepper
Forum Groupie Joined: June 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Posted: July 02 2006 at 06:08 | |||
With such extreme fundings and firepower, a force as well armed as
Israel doesn't have an excuse for such mistakes. And do you know where
the terrorism originally stems from? There's a reason why the people
are this desperate, it's not pointless, ruthless killings. They aren't
willing to turn to the lowest possible medium for attack without a
cause. I'm not justifying the acts, but I think one should look at what
went wrong in causing people to need to use such a concept of violence.
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