Philosophy

I think some people are looking at this in the wrong way.  The philosophical question here is does the tree really make a sound at all?  We keep answering this question whether or not the tree would make a sound when we know the tree is there.  The proper way to think about this is how do we proove this tree exists.  I still say the tree does not exist because of the relativity of existence.

^

Yea, there's that interesting theory that we all exist in someone's dream/imagination

If a man is standing in a forest and he says something and there are no women around anywhere, is he still wrong?

stonebeard wrote: AtLossForWords wrote: I think some people are looking at this in the wrong way.  The philosophical question here is does the tree really make a sound at all?  We keep answering this question whether or not the tree would make a sound when we know the tree is there.  The proper way to think about this is how do we proove this tree exists.  I still say the tree does not exist because of the relativity of existence. If I see a tree, then in my mind, it exists. I don't care aout any of that metaphysical nonsense. If I see it and touch it, then it exists.

Maybe to you Stonie, but people other than you may disagree.  We have never seen or felt this tree.  Is the tree as real to them as it is to you.  Who are you to say what is real and what isn't?

I still love ya Stonie!

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, it makes the sound of one hand clapping...

(Put that in your zenkoancyberpipe and smoke it...)

Peace.

[P.S. to ALFW: How do we know you exist?  Can you prove it?]

Badabec wrote: Tony R wrote: You mean: "If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" Ok,so you edited it!   The answer is yes!! How could the answer be anything other....?   Can you prove it? This is NOT provable.

Yes it can be proved, Laws of physics, an object with mass that falls produces a vibration in the form of  compression wave and this creates sound except in vacuum, despite there's somebody there to listen it.

If a truck full of TNT explodes in the wood and nobody wittnesses, does it makes a sound?

Iván

 

The laws of physics are derived from what we observe, either with one of our senses or with some scientific apparatus. But the fact that we only ever observed noise-making falling trees so far is not proof that all falling trees make noises; it only makes it highly probable. This is the same for all "laws" of nature we know. You can't derive the non-existence of a non-striped tiger from the fact that you only ever saw striped ones. And indeed there are some white tigers. Many creatures that were supposed to be "mystic" were discovered in the late 19th and early 20th century; hundreds of new species of insects are discovered yearly. You may say: "I can derive the tree would make a sound from the physical theories we know to be true", but even the best physical theories don't describe incidents accurately (you could for example never fortell where a certain leaf of a tree will land when it falls).
I recommend to read the very entertaining and informative book "Why Aren't Black Holes Black? The Unanswered Questions at the Frontiers of Science" by Robert M. Hazen and Maxine Singer. Palaeontoligist Stephen J. Gould wrote a very interesting and enlightening preface to it, which deals with topics like this.


Edited by BaldFriede

BaldFriede wrote: The laws of physics are derived from what we observe, either with one of our senses or with some scientific apparatus. But the fact that we only ever observed noise-making falling trees so far is not proof that all falling trees make noises; it only makes it highly probable. This is the same for all "laws" of nature we know. You can't derive the non-existence of a non-striped tiger from the fact that you only ever saw striped ones. And indeed there are some white tigers. Many creatures that were supposed to be "mystic" were discovered in the late 19th and early 20th century; hundreds of new species of insects are discovered yearly. You may say: "I can derive the tree would make a sound from the physical theories we know to be true", but even the best physical theories don't describe incidents accurately (you could for example never fortell where a certain leaf of a tree will land when it falls). I recommend to read the very entertaining and informative book "Why Aren't Black Holes Black? The Unanswered Questions at the Frontiers of Science" by Robert M. Hazen and Maxine Singer. Palaeontoligist Stephen J. Gould wrote a very interesting and enlightening preface to it, which deals with topics like this.

Understand your point of view, but any object with mass falling in an environement with atmosphere as the earth produces vibration, that's beyond any question.

Vibration causes a pressure in the air and that means sound in any point ofthe earth, things like that can't be discussed, if not my example of the TNT truck will be exactly the same.

1. Truck full of TNT, nobody around to wittnes it
2. Explosion
3. Sound, despite there's anybody to listen it.

The real question is if this sound matters at all being nobody there to listen it.

But in the earth there's no way a falling tree could not make sound, even if it falls over cusihons it will cause sounds. Now if you're talking aboout vacuum, yes it's true, it could maybe not cause sound because there's no air moleules that will push each others to transmit the vibration, in other words it will cause sound but it would be impossible to listen it.

Iván

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ivan_2068 wrote: Badabec wrote: Tony R wrote: You mean: "If a tree falls in the woods,and nobody witnesses it does it make a sound?" Ok,so you edited it!   The answer is yes!! How could the answer be anything other....?   Can you prove it? This is NOT provable. Yes it can be proved, Laws of physics, an object with mass that falls produces a vibration in the form of  compression wave and this creates sound except in vacuum, despite there's somebody there to listen it. If a truck full of TNT explodes in the wood and nobody wittnesses, does it makes a sound? Iván

yes, yes, yes, bravoooo