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IncogNeato View Drop Down
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The Voivod and Watchtower mentioned here, for sure.

I'm going to say that, IMO, 'Perfect Symmetry' by Fates Warning would be my pick of theirs. It doesn't sound like anyone, honestly. I know loads of people say it sounds like Queensryche, however 'Ryche did not have songs like 'Part Of The Machine', 'Static Acts' and 'Nothing Left To Say'...even the single 'Through Different Eyes' was strikingly different than 'Ryche.

All IMO, of course.
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SPK dropped one of the. most perfect industrial albums that was influential for most industrial genres to come with Leichenschrei in 1982

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Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

I'm going to say that, IMO, 'Perfect Symmetry' by Fates Warning would be my pick of theirs. It doesn't sound like anyone, honestly. I know loads of people say it sounds like Queensryche, however 'Ryche did not have songs like 'Part Of The Machine', 'Static Acts' and 'Nothing Left To Say'...even the single 'Through Different Eyes' was strikingly different than 'Ryche.

All IMO, of course.

I agree. Smile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

I'm going to say that, IMO, 'Perfect Symmetry' by Fates Warning would be my pick of theirs. It doesn't sound like anyone, honestly. I know loads of people say it sounds like Queensryche, however 'Ryche did not have songs like 'Part Of The Machine', 'Static Acts' and 'Nothing Left To Say'...even the single 'Through Different Eyes' was strikingly different than 'Ryche.

All IMO, of course.

I agree. Smile

Now, we are two. Smile
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
"Computer World" basically has a theme about the rise in computer technology and its insertion into everyday life. There are lyrics on digital communication, home computing, or the ramifications of technology in society. In the 90s, computer technology wasn't a part of everyday life for common people. Ralf Hütter, one of the band's founders, said they made a song about living in a computer world because they could see that this would be the reality of everyday life in the future. A foresightful prediction it was, more than anything else, into the insight of the whole new era of computers, both in personal and professional spaces.

By 1981, when the album was released, personal computers had only just started to become part of workplaces and, rather rarely, at home. The view that computers were going to change communication and ways of interaction among people in everyday life was still not the public perception nor captured in their minds. Kraftwerk's competency for articulation in music reflected their vision.
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Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

The Voivod and Watchtower mentioned here, for sure.

I'm going to say that, IMO, 'Perfect Symmetry' by Fates Warning would be my pick of theirs. It doesn't sound like anyone, honestly. I know loads of people say it sounds like Queensryche, however 'Ryche did not have songs like 'Part Of The Machine', 'Static Acts' and 'Nothing Left To Say'...even the single 'Through Different Eyes' was strikingly different than 'Ryche.

All IMO, of course.


Perfect Symmetry is a stupendous album. I don't see much overlap between the two bands, either, with the exception that they were metal bands exploring concepts from album to album. The guitar tandem of Matheos/Aresti is one of my favorites and I hear no echoes of DeGarmo/Wilton in their approaches, and vice versa. The biggest difference is Mark Zonder's drumming, naturally! He's on another level.
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.


Thematically, I'll give you that. Not musically.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

The Voivod and Watchtower mentioned here, for sure.

I'm going to say that, IMO, 'Perfect Symmetry' by Fates Warning would be my pick of theirs. It doesn't sound like anyone, honestly. I know loads of people say it sounds like Queensryche, however 'Ryche did not have songs like 'Part Of The Machine', 'Static Acts' and 'Nothing Left To Say'...even the single 'Through Different Eyes' was strikingly different than 'Ryche.

All IMO, of course.


Perfect Symmetry is a stupendous album. I don't see much overlap between the two bands, either, with the exception that they were metal bands exploring concepts from album to album. The guitar tandem of Matheos/Aresti is one of my favorites and I hear no echoes of DeGarmo/Wilton in their approaches, and vice versa. The biggest difference is Mark Zonder's drumming, naturally! He's on another level.

Oh, Zonder is otherworldly. I agree with all your points.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.


Thematically, I'll give you that. Not musically.

I thought even musically, but then again, I'm hardly the electronic music connaisseur. EmbarrassedSmile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.


Thematically, I'll give you that. Not musically.

I thought even musically, but then again, I'm hardly the electronic music connaisseur. EmbarrassedSmile
It is 2025; this track ("Numbers") is 44 years old and still influences electronic dance music. That's how musically far ahead of their time the four Düsseldorfers were on their eighth studio album.


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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
"Computer World" basically has a theme about the rise in computer technology and its insertion into everyday life. There are lyrics on digital communication, home computing, or the ramifications of technology in society. In the 90s, computer technology wasn't a part of everyday life for common people. Ralf Hütter, one of the band's founders, said they made a song about living in a computer world because they could see that this would be the reality of everyday life in the future. A foresightful prediction it was, more than anything else, into the insight of the whole new era of computers, both in personal and professional spaces.

By 1981, when the album was released, personal computers had only just started to become part of workplaces and, rather rarely, at home. The view that computers were going to change communication and ways of interaction among people in everyday life was still not the public perception nor captured in their minds. Kraftwerk's competency for articulation in music reflected their vision.

Computer technology was widespread in the 1990s. I guess you weren't there. I would even argue it started making in-roads with the wider public in the 1980s with computers produced for the public by Commodore, IBM, and Apple.
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.


Thematically, I'll give you that. Not musically.

I thought even musically, but then again, I'm hardly the electronic music connaisseur. EmbarrassedSmile
It is 2025; this track ("Numbers") is 44 years old and still influences electronic dance music. That's how musically far ahead of their time the four Düsseldorfers were on their eighth studio album.


You don't have to post videos of their famous songs. I have also known the album since i was a kid and that was long long ago (I'm afraid to calculate LOL). 

I do think Kraftwerk was ahead of the time. But i could be wrong or someone will disagree with me. Smile
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
"Computer World" basically has a theme about the rise in computer technology and its insertion into everyday life. There are lyrics on digital communication, home computing, or the ramifications of technology in society. In the 90s, computer technology wasn't a part of everyday life for common people. Ralf Hütter, one of the band's founders, said they made a song about living in a computer world because they could see that this would be the reality of everyday life in the future. A foresightful prediction it was, more than anything else, into the insight of the whole new era of computers, both in personal and professional spaces.

By 1981, when the album was released, personal computers had only just started to become part of workplaces and, rather rarely, at home. The view that computers were going to change communication and ways of interaction among people in everyday life was still not the public perception nor captured in their minds. Kraftwerk's competency for articulation in music reflected their vision.

Computer technology was widespread in the 1990s. I guess you weren't there. I would even argue it started making in-roads with the wider public in the 1980s with computers produced for the public by Commodore, IBM, and Apple.
For sure, I was there, and honestly, it was only back in the late 1990s that it felt like everyone had some kind of home computer. It was pretty much a given since the internet became a big deal with services like AOL popping up everywhere. However, at that time, personal computers were more like toys you messed around with unless you were using them for work stuff. It wasn't really until the early 2000s, when social media blew up, that computers turned into everyday essentials—like something you just used all the time without even thinking about it, and that is actually the vibe that those four prophets from Düsseldorf were talking about in their lyrics on their 1981 album called Computerwelt.
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
"Computer World" basically has a theme about the rise in computer technology and its insertion into everyday life. There are lyrics on digital communication, home computing, or the ramifications of technology in society. In the 90s, computer technology wasn't a part of everyday life for common people. Ralf Hütter, one of the band's founders, said they made a song about living in a computer world because they could see that this would be the reality of everyday life in the future. A foresightful prediction it was, more than anything else, into the insight of the whole new era of computers, both in personal and professional spaces.

By 1981, when the album was released, personal computers had only just started to become part of workplaces and, rather rarely, at home. The view that computers were going to change communication and ways of interaction among people in everyday life was still not the public perception nor captured in their minds. Kraftwerk's competency for articulation in music reflected their vision.

Computer technology was widespread in the 1990s. I guess you weren't there. I would even argue it started making in-roads with the wider public in the 1980s with computers produced for the public by Commodore, IBM, and Apple.
For sure, I was there, and honestly, it was only back in the late 1990s that it felt like everyone had some kind of home computer. It was pretty much a given since the internet became a big deal with services like AOL popping up everywhere. However, at that time, personal computers were more like toys you messed around with unless you were using them for work stuff. It wasn't really until the early 2000s, when social media blew up, that computers turned into everyday essentials—like something you just used all the time without even thinking about it, and that is actually the vibe that those four prophets from Düsseldorf were talking about in their lyrics on their 1981 album called Computerwelt.

Social media existed and was used quite regularly in the 1990s, and even back into the 1980s. BBSes, forums, blogs, and even newsgroups were all types of social media. This all evolved into what eventually was called Web 2.0 by the early 2000s. I would say Kraftwerk's lyrics for this song actually were as applicable to the 1980s as they were for later on. 
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^Sorry, I disagree. Kraftwerk did it better with 1978's The Man-Machine.
"Computer World" was ahead of its time because it presciently explored themes of digitalization and the impact of technology on society, encapsulating a vision of a computer-driven future that would not fully materialize until decades later.

I would say it materialized in the 1990s. I lived through it. Much of what we are living in now had its origins in the 1990s. Some might argue it dates back even earlier.
"Computer World" basically has a theme about the rise in computer technology and its insertion into everyday life. There are lyrics on digital communication, home computing, or the ramifications of technology in society. In the 90s, computer technology wasn't a part of everyday life for common people. Ralf Hütter, one of the band's founders, said they made a song about living in a computer world because they could see that this would be the reality of everyday life in the future. A foresightful prediction it was, more than anything else, into the insight of the whole new era of computers, both in personal and professional spaces.

By 1981, when the album was released, personal computers had only just started to become part of workplaces and, rather rarely, at home. The view that computers were going to change communication and ways of interaction among people in everyday life was still not the public perception nor captured in their minds. Kraftwerk's competency for articulation in music reflected their vision.

Computer technology was widespread in the 1990s. I guess you weren't there. I would even argue it started making in-roads with the wider public in the 1980s with computers produced for the public by Commodore, IBM, and Apple.
For sure, I was there, and honestly, it was only back in the late 1990s that it felt like everyone had some kind of home computer. It was pretty much a given since the internet became a big deal with services like AOL popping up everywhere. However, at that time, personal computers were more like toys you messed around with unless you were using them for work stuff. It wasn't really until the early 2000s, when social media blew up, that computers turned into everyday essentials—like something you just used all the time without even thinking about it, and that is actually the vibe that those four prophets from Düsseldorf were talking about in their lyrics on their 1981 album called Computerwelt.

Social media existed and was used quite regularly in the 1990s, and even back into the 1980s. BBSes, forums, blogs, and even newsgroups were all types of social media. This all evolved into what eventually was called Web 2.0 by the early 2000s. I would say Kraftwerk's lyrics for this song actually were as applicable to the 1980s as they were for later on. 
Back in the late 90s, social media was just getting started and still in its infancy; back then, using social media was still more of a curiosity than a lifestyle for most folks. The tech scene was buzzing, but it would take a few more years before everyone would be glued to their screens sharing every moment. Even in 2005, just 5% of Americans used a major social platform; by 2021, this number increased to 72%, according to findings from the Pew Research Centre.
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(a) Digital social media was non-existent in 1990. The Mosaic browser was launched in 1993. It was the first widely popular web browser.

(b) Computers were around for much longer. Affordable home computers started to spread big time 1980/81 when Kraftwerk did Computerwelt, but what existed before was very expensive and exclusive. 

(c) Kraftwerk were certainly on the pulse of the time with Computerwelt; I do think it is still a development coming from Mensch-Maschine and their earlier albums (which were even more groundbreaking, but this shouldn't take too much away from Computerwelt). The direction of their development may not have been that pleasant for the prog fan. The album doesn't have the kind of musical novelty that we would call "progressive", but I think it was innovative to some extent and hugely influential that they went into the pop "everybody can do it and everybody will live in computer world" theme with their electronic sound that had already been advanced before. 

(d) I don't think it makes sense to separate the music and the album theme/lyrics here, as these were very nicely integrated, which is a major strength of the album. I tend to be a music not lyrics listener, still we can't do this album justice of we consider the music isolated from the lyrics/theme.

(e) Talking about the album being "ahead of its time" is maybe not fully appropriate here. I'd rather say it happened at exactly the right time capturing something big that was happening just then.  


Edited by Lewian - 8 hours 47 minutes ago at 08:42
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

...
I do think Kraftwerk was ahead of the time. But i could be wrong or someone will disagree with me. Smile

Hi,

I disagree, more or less, simply because Kraftwerk were not the only ones that were doing that kind of thing, but they were more "fun" than the other folks that were more into the music than they were into the fun of it. As such, Kraftwerk got picked up right away ... and shown off ... but they were not ahead of their time, except in one way ... with the money from one album they ended up with the best equipment around, and then it seemed like they were more special and interesting, but in all honesty I never felt that it was as much talent in their work as there was somewhere else in Germany, for example.

I don't think that most things were "ahead of its time" ... if we take the idea and thoughts from Holger in his posting for a long time, they were mostly making sure they went opposite the ideas and process used in westernized commercial music ... and this was one of the great value in a lot of that work, that became known as "krautrock" ... but in essence was making a point of making sure it was different from a lot of the better known stuff on radio or in print.

The scary side of it all is ... a listing that merely shows a "known" band ... and not work that was not as well known that really was ahead of its time, but I'm not sure that we have heard enough of it, to make it qualify in the stakes of the great list in the sky!
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
(d) I don't think it makes sense to separate the music and the album theme/lyrics here, as these were very nicely integrated, which is a major strength of the album. I tend to be a music not lyrics listener, still we can't do this album justice of we consider the music isolated from the lyrics/theme.

(e) Talking about the album being "ahead of its time" is maybe not fully appropriate here. I'd rather say it happened at exactly the right time capturing something big that was happening just then.  

Hi,

Nice posting ... enjoyed it a lot.

Some additions to it ... 

(d) ... this has been a problem in music for a long time ... and how quickly we forget that Mozart was probably the first one to tell us that a lot of the fun in listening and loving music was left behind, and he made the most of it ... but, without the lyrics the music would probably not be appreciated as much ... I think it was the idea of fun that helped it more than anything else ... I certainly do not think that DD would discuss the musicality of Kraftwerk at all ... it was not what the band was about at all!

(e) ... a very tough thought and idea, and I can give you only one example that I have been a part of for 51 years, and just celebrated the birthday of the start of the 52nd year! Space Pirate Radio and the work that Guy Guden has done. When one considers the listing of things played in that year alone (1974 posted before somewhere), I sincerely doubt anyone would question it, however, a lot of folks would get upset because some of the top favorites of theirs were not included ... Guy's shows have never been about the hit, as he was in a commercial radio station on top of it that already played the same crap all day long! So, it could be said that he was doing things ahead of its time, because no one else had even touched it ... and unlike folks using banded LP's (no kidding ... record company specials!!!) ... Guy played the whole thing, including Klaus Schulze and Tangerine Dream, and many of the shows listed? How many minutes can you count?

I think some folks think of the "unknown" or at least "unplayed" stuff as being out in left field in Uranus, and sometimes, the ideas and comments are in that vein, since it dismantles the credibility of their stand on their top five listing! But this, is sad, because we do not want to be here trashing things, and guess what happens when I don't kiss up to the JT and Rush fans? I liked and loved a lot of other materials that were NOT IGNORED, and if you had seen how many things were sent to the radio station that Guy brought home, you would be very upset and disappointed ... they would include nearly 80/90% of all the stuff we have come to love ... and we don't spend our time taking down those fake hit folks ... we ignore them, and then post on PA our favorites as a way to make it look like we care.

I was there, so to speak, and being ahead of its time was not the issue ... revolting against the "normal" was!!!! 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Joined: August 09 2015
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Points: 15019 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 19 minutes ago at 11:10
^ I appreciate your take on the "ahead of its time" thing. The 80s had much good new and innovative music on offer, and that was a sign of its time, not so much "ahead of it" (the 80s have a bit of a bad reputation in prog circles, but the great music of the 80s was great 80s music, not music that would have been more at home in the 90s or later). 
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