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Your Top 10 Metal Albums of All-Time
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 06:05
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Without having though that much about it, I suppose think of Black Sabbath at their heaviest as Heavy Metal - but Heavy Rock covers their music better. When only the short term Metal is used, to me that means something else. Someting else that in a nutshell starts forty years ago, primarely with Kill 'Em All. 

Exactly what I said, but more to the point Big smile
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Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin are the very definition of Hard Rock to me. If Purple and Led Zep are metal, then every hard rock band is metal. And at that point, Hard Rock = Metal, and that doesn't make sense to me.

For Black Sabbath, I'd say Paranoid and Master of Reality are probably metal, the rest of their 70's output is more accurately classified as hard rock in my opinion.

Exactly. Or, as bardberic put it, early Black Sabbath are more Heavy Blues.

We can also look to metal-archives.com (Encyclopedia Metallum) for clues. While they are not the final arbiters of all things metal, it's interesting that they do not accept Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple (rightly so, IMHO), but do accept Black Sabbath, which on their later albums were more obviously within the "Metal" domain.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The first 7 Maiden albums and then Motorhead (some compilation), Metallica (The Black Album) and Def Leppard (High n Dry) would get me to a 10 then I'm struggling to care tbh.





Considering a compilation album is already a sign of lack of care Wink
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Without having though that much about it, I suppose think of Black Sabbath at their heaviest as Heavy Metal - but Heavy Rock covers their music better. When only the short term Metal is used, to me that means something else. Someting else that in a nutshell starts forty years ago, primarely with Kill 'Em All. 


Exactly what I said, but more to the point Big smile


But Kill'em All was influnced by Motorhead, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and NWoBHM ( Iron Maiden, Saxon, Diamond Head).
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Points: 21134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 06:17
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


But Kill'em All was influnced by Motorhead, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and NWoBHM ( Iron Maiden, Saxon, Diamond Head).

Of course. What's your point?

Edit: Most music today is influenced either directly or indirectly by Bach - that doesn't make all modern music Baroque. 


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 16 2023 at 06:18
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


But Kill'em All was influnced by Motorhead, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and NWoBHM ( Iron Maiden, Saxon, Diamond Head).


Of course. What's your point?


Hardly the beginning of Metal I gueșs, maybe for speed & thrash.

Edited by Cristi - July 16 2023 at 06:21
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Kill 'em All could very well be the beginning of "Metal", while the 70s laid the foundations with their "Heavy Metal" albums:

Rock/Blues
->
Heavy Rock/Blues / Hard Rock
-> 
New Wave of British Heavy Metal
->
(Modern) Metal
-> 
Thrash Metal / Death Metal / Black Metal / ...



Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 16 2023 at 06:25
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Extremely difficult, but I´ll give it a very subjective try:

1. King Diamond - Abigail
2. Mercyful Fate - Don´t Break the Oath
3. Atheist - Unquestionable Presence
4. Psychotic Waltz - Into the Everflow
5. Slayer - Reign in Blood
6. Metallica - Master of Puppets
7. Nevermore - The Politics of Ecstacy
8. Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence
9. Macabre - Dahmer
10. Carcass - Necroticism - Descanting the Insalubrious

These are just some of my personal favorites, but I could go on and on and on...
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The first 7 Maiden albums and then Motorhead (some compilation), Metallica (The Black Album) and Def Leppard (High n Dry) would get me to a 10 then I'm struggling to care tbh.





Considering a compilation album is already a sign of lack of care Wink

I don't think Motorehad were really about albums. They had some tremendous singles that broke into the charts adn even got airplay. Only Maiden and maybe Judas Priest (the earliest metal bandWink) were bigger on the metal scene around late sevnties early eighties. Then Def Leppard blotted out the sun with Hysteria although I only really liked their earlier stuff. I've not devoted much time to listening to Heavy Metal , its so bloody boring much of the time. Maiden were perhaps the first metal band to realise you could have an arty element to it although they admitted a heavy prog influence around the time of Seventh Son of A Seventh Son. Even with Maiden though I can quite happily just listen to Powerslave which is virtually the only metal album that would get anywhere near a personal top ten of all time covering any genre.


Edited by richardh - July 16 2023 at 06:39
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Reworked from David's thread.
Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs


Metal? Interesting Smile
I always thought this was heavier than any hard rock album so I listed it. Maybe not metal but is Deep Purple, or Zep metal?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 06:43
^ no, it’s all Hard Rock to me (or in Trower’s case, Blues).
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Reworked from David's thread.
Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs


Metal? Interesting Smile
I always thought this was heavier than any hard rock album so I listed it. Maybe not metal but is Deep Purple, or Zep metal?

I get why Highway Star links to quite a lot of later metal stuff and Purple are oft listed as a key influence of metal bands. Led Zep, don't really hear it. Hard Rock for sure as said above.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I think the key to understanding this is the realization that "Heavy Metal" is a subgenre of "Rock", and out of "Heavy Metal" eventually the NWOBHM arose. IMHO both Heavy Metal and NWOBHM are still rooted in Rock. Then in the 80s bands continued along that path and, through Thrash Metal, eventually arrived at a musical pattern that was radically different from the Rock roots. That is I think when "Metal", as something really distinct from "Rock", arose. 

But interesting to hear about your considerations concerning the relation between Metal and Rock, as I've been wondering about the opinions today in that matter. 
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Not sure I want to qualify anything 70's from Sab, Zep & Purple as metal, let alone "Heavy Metal". 
And TBH, I lost interest & track of most metal acts in 82/3 - and "rock" in general (in favour of jazz) in 84/5.

I'd rank three or four as my "faves":
Rising
Sad Wings
Iron Maiden (debut)
Heaven & Hell (that's an 80's album, when they became NWOBHMB)


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       My honourable mentions

Voivod  (CAN)  -  Nothingface   (1989)

Soundgarden  (USA)  -  Badmotorfinger  (1991)   

Aesma Daeva  (USA)  -  The Eros of Frigid Beauty  (2001)

OSI  (USA)  -  Office Of Strategic Influence  (2003)

Om  (USA)  -  Conference Of The Birds  (2006)
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Kill 'em All could very well be the beginning of "Metal", while the 70s laid the foundations with their "Heavy Metal" albums:
..........

It seems better to me to talk about the '70s Proto-Metal as the beginning of the '80s Metal.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Without having though that much about it, I suppose think of Black Sabbath at their heaviest as Heavy Metal - but Heavy Rock covers their music better. When only the short term Metal is used, to me that means something else. Someting else that in a nutshell starts forty years ago, primarely with Kill 'Em All. 


Exactly what I said, but more to the point Big smile


But Kill'em All was influnced by Motorhead, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and NWoBHM ( Iron Maiden, Saxon, Diamond Head).
You think we don't know that? Its an invalid argument. Kraftwerk was inspired by Stockhausen, Gong by Sun Ra, Magma by Coltrane, Zappa by Stravinsky and everything is influenced by something.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Kill 'em All could very well be the beginning of "Metal", while the 70s laid the foundations with their "Heavy Metal" albums:

Rock/Blues
->
Heavy Rock/Blues / Hard Rock
-> 
New Wave of British Heavy Metal
->
(Modern) Metal
-> 
Thrash Metal / Death Metal / Black Metal / ...



Kill Em ALl the beginning of metal? OMG. Are you serious?
Metallica didn't even release the first thrash much less metal.
Both Sodom and Holy Moses released thrash metal before Metallica.
Bands like Sir Lord Baltimore were designated heavy metal as early as 1970.
Much heavier than Sabbath, Zeppelin and DP.

Kill Em All came out in 1983 the same year as Hellhammber's blackened thrash.
As far as NWOBHM most certainly metal, the first album came from Quartz in 1977.
Several bands jumped on board and led to Iron Maiden's 1980 debut. NOT hard rock anymore.
Motorhead was clearly speed metal as was Running Wild, Atomkraft and Venom well before Metallica.
So your claim is incorrect.

70s heavier rock is early metal. I call it first wave metal.
Doom metal is metal too and Black Sabbath fit the bill perfectly.
Yeah, 70s hard rock and heavy metal are very difficult to distinguish but there were some metal bands then.

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


70s heavier rock is early metal. I call it first wave metal.
Doom metal is metal too and Black Sabbath fit the bill perfectly.
Yeah, 70s hard rock and heavy metal are very difficult to distinguish but there were some metal bands then.



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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Imo, there weren't many "true" heavy metal bands in the 70s. It wasn't until at least the NWOBH that it became a fully formed scene or genre and the 80s is when it started to become mainstream. 




Motorhead & Judas Priest

I didn't say there weren't any. Yes, those two qualify and of course Black Sabbath even though apparently they didn't like the term.
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