Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?

SteveG wrote: Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.

lazland wrote: SteveG wrote: Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here. They used to hang men for less than that!

Yes, we older types do long for the past at times.

I have seen lots of positivity for Marillion, including in this thread. I think that conversations often tend to focus on the negative because people often have a tendency to respond to negativity (often with their negative opinions about the others negativity) more than positivity. One often gets more "I disagree with your assessment" or "You're wrong" type posts, than "I really like what you said, agree with you, and would like to delve into and expand on that."

I love lots of muzaky, elevator-type music. If others think of such music as bad, well, what matters to me is that I like it. Vive la difference, different tastes and all that. I like a lot of down-tempo loungey music and exotica which others have called elevator music. Some of it is quite kistch.

As for the album Brave, which I have heard in full but not in years. While I did find it overlong, and its just not altogether music in my wheelhouse (I appreciate more alternative rock type music now), I respected the effort and did find value in it (I often like dark and depressing and quite ambient music). I checked it out because I saw it getting lots of acclaim and recognition. At rateyourmusic it is one the highest rated Marillion albums. At PA, it has a 3.97 rating with 1087 ratings which is a good showing. Various Fish albums do better here, but that is the second highest rated Hogarth album, after Marbles.

To increase the positivity, here is an excerpt from a review by Romdrum:

"This album has been my personal number one album for 15 years now. It shows no signs of ever losing its spot. Brave had a huge impact on me from the moment I bought it, and I was absolutely amazed that they did this album after Holidays in Eden. A greater contrast could not have been achieved. If Holidays was a surface dwelling, shiny pop product, then Brave is its polar opposite. It’s dark, dank, damp, seedy, and mysterious. To paraphrase The Damage, Holidays in Eden was what was in the window, and Brave is the low down deep down primal truth."

Oh, as for the Prog-by-numbers things (which as said refers to paint-by-numbers), I have used the term a number of times. I called Magma's K.A. Prog-by-numbers, and also Magma-by-numbers. I like the album but I felt that it was rather catering to a Prog audience. I called Comus' Out of the Coma, Comus-by-numbers, and also felt it was doing some First Utterance Prog Folk fan service rather than trying something new. I still enjoyed it very much, and there's nothing really wrong with that. I wouldn't expect otherwise (reaching back on an old creative well because there has been interest in your past work). Lots of people say with bands, I wish they'd go back and make something like they used to. I wouldn't have thought of Brave or Marillion generally as Prog-by-numbers (on some Marillion tracks I could say so). Influence is one thing, being derivative is another, but I'm no expert. David Bowie's final album drew more on past eras than a lot of his stuff, and I loved that (he's been known to re-invent himself, but this felt like he was tying together his history together for a final show while also trying new things), but I digress.

Edited by Logan - January 28 2021 at 11:54

"Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.

suitkees wrote: "Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.

Again, there's a point where being opposing crossed to the point of being inflammatory. If posters can't tell the difference, then they should stick to the pop forums where they belong. As much as someone like Catcher10 dislikes the Beatles, he has never crossed that line in a hundred different Beatles' themed threads. If he can do it, so can anyone.

Edited by SteveG - January 28 2021 at 12:23

See the last post.

SteveG wrote: suitkees wrote: "Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it. Again, there's a point where being opposing crossed to the point of being inflammatory. If posters can't tell the difference, then they should stick to the pop forums where they belong. As much as someone like Catcher10 dislikes the Beatles, he has never crossed that line in a hundred different Beatles' themed threads. If he can do it, so can anyone.

suitkees wrote: ^ Thanks, Steve, appreciated. And to get back on track, regarding Brave, I think this album may be some kind of a blue-print of the Marillion music and sound of the Hogarth era. This album set forth their musical direction in a way. But personally, I prefer some more sharp edges to their music, or some "outings" into other territories (like the Beach Boys nudge on Afraid of Sunlight, e.g.). In my opinion they lost that a bit (although I must say that the FEAR album was quite good...) And I'm definitely not asking myself if it's prog enough or not... who cares, we like what we like (or not).

This is really a topic for another thread but where do we draw the line between an artist having a definable sound and style, that we appreciate, versus becoming predictable and not moving forward. Something that I've always wrestled with.

lazland wrote: SteveG wrote: Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here. They used to hang men for less than that!