The origins of progressive rock (proto-prog)

earlyprog wrote: SteveG wrote: earlyprog wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: earlyprog wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I think most people on here would agree that for the most part full blown prog didn't really happen until the KC debut. There were possibly a few exceptions before that such as the Nice but as a full blown genre I think it's safe to say that ITCOTCK is the one that kicked the doors down.  Consensus: ItCotCK was the first true REALIZATION of the progressive rock album.  Album contenders before that was at the CONCEPTUALIZATION stage. I think a big part of that is the fact that Court was relatively successful and so more people knew about it. It's hard to be an influential album when it doesn't reach a lot of ears. Court while not super huge like say DSOTM or even as big as Fragile was successful enough for enough people to hear it and say to themselves "wait, what the heck is this?" Agreed. REALIZATION requires an audience (buyers/customers, sellers/providers, musicians) gradually beginning to understand or REALIZE that there's a new genre in town they did not know or notice before. Thanks for the input. It provides a better basis for the definition of the various stages of prog development. I like it, but I find it difficult to believe that the Beatles, who have been getting a lot of press in the PA pages recently, would agree that Sgt. Pepper's was a CONCEPULAZATON and not a fully realized musical venture, hence a REALIZATION of what they intended, as ad hoc as some of the music and album themes actually were. There's often a mismatch between views of the creator/artist and the listener/consumer of the art (cf. REALIZATION vs. CONCEPTUALIZATION). At the onset of recording Sgt. Pepper, the Beatles had a CONCEPT (concept album) but ended up realizing a piece of art that deviated from that concept. Yet, the album led to ideas and concepts of new directions in music in the right minds. Hence, the relegation of Sgt. Pepper to the IDEATION or CONCEPTUALIZATION phase of prog.

Got cha!

Where would you guys put bands like Comus and Jan Dukes de Grey? I would say that they are extremely influencial to a lot of different music we listen to today but not popularly of course

jiminyCrikett wrote: Where would you guys put bands like Comus and Jan Dukes de Grey? I would say that they are extremely influencial to a lot of different music we listen to today but not popularly of course

Is there a romance blooming on the forum...?

^Ok...fair enough.....  :)

Edited by dr wu23 - June 08 2018 at 12:59

I can see some influence to 70's prog bands and I suppose many of these early prog acts listened to one another if they had a chance  ... but metal...? Bit of a stretch imho.

I guess I always thought the dark nature of the lyrics and sound were influential to the entire metal scene but I have been wrong before haha

I think Sabbath and them were about the same time, and Sabbath certainly had a greater influence on the genre I wouldn't contest that. I guess its a stretch to say all metal since I think thrash metal like Metallica wouldn't have been influenced by it. And that I'm not sure, I just know that when I listen to First Utterance (on youtube of course, shame its not on spotify) it sounds like they're trying to play metal just on the wrong instruments. And it very much works!

Edited by jiminyCrikett - June 08 2018 at 13:33

Sorry to get everything off topic though - as far as the prog scene, I feel like the psychedelic rock scene played more of a role in influencing progressive music than we realize, for instance the Clouds have been mentioned to have influenced Yes among others heavily. I think that seeing more mainstream acts succeed in pushing the boundaries of rock more primed the public for the emergence of prog rock than influencing the music (not that the beatles and such didn't influence prog, just that their influence on artists specifically might be overstated)

To Jiminy...I need to go back and listen to Clouds...I have that 2on1 cd release.....Scrapbook and Watercolour Days. I was not aware that Yes was influenced by them.