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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: February 21 2016 at 04:25 |
Bees don't sting me unless I play Celine Dion. Nice little rule of thumb I'll gladly share with you fine folks.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: February 21 2016 at 04:37 |
Ayn Rand was portrayed exceptionally well in Matt Ruff's novel "Sewer, Gas and Electric", which I highly recommend
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Prog Snob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 12 2012
Location: Staten Island
Status: Offline
Points: 225
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Posted: February 21 2016 at 11:03 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 18 2016 at 23:48 |
Nah, sadly the once great libertarian thread is so dead not even Bernie Sanders could stimulate it back to life.
I assume this is because the core 5-7 people all got busy with life/stopped bothering. I am of course one, but if it makes ya feel better I have been accepted into a Master's of Economics, and at a diverse program (rare for econ) so I can pursue a more progressive track. So I hope to continue the debate with our libertarian comrades in real life some day!
Also, I rarely pop on here anymore myself. How the hell are ya?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 19 2016 at 23:07 |
Interesting, we have had lots of discussions on the libertarian thread and you have moved from being more of a Republican voter to a Sanders advocate, and now an economic progressive. Wonder who else has remained capitalist in the face of the 'Trump effect'.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 19:29 |
rogerthat wrote:
Interesting, we have had lots of discussions on the libertarian thread and you have moved from being more of a Republican voter to a Sanders advocate, and now an economic progressive. Wonder who else has remained capitalist in the face of the 'Trump effect'. |
Well, I was always a social democrat of the generally Scandinavian model as many from the Libertarian Thread can attest Then I had a few year flirtation as a moderate libertarian (very moderate and I was never a Republican) but I abandoned that stuff around 2013 when I realized, long story short: most of it was wrong and detrimental. I learned more about economics and found out how much of it doesn't really sync up with reality. I then swung back to social democrat, though you're right economically I am more progressive/labor oriented than I ever was.
Used to believe in market oriented growth, general welfare, stimulii packages, stuff like a rising tide lifts all boats, worrying how we cut the pie pieces shrinks the pie, all that good textbook stuff. Now I prefer long term jobs programs, labor driven growth, government investment in certain areas etc etc
But yeah, my shift predates Trump and Sanders.
Edited by JJLehto - March 20 2016 at 22:08
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 20:56 |
Anyone who changed their economic views based on Trump's presidential run probably didn't have any views in the real sense of the word.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 22:06 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Anyone who changed their economic views based on Trump's presidential run probably didn't have any views in the real sense of the word.
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Very true.
Edited by JJLehto - March 20 2016 at 22:07
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 22:14 |
Trump's existence makes me dislike capitalists even more, does that count?
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history nerd
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 17 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 22:31 |
Wow... The level of discussion on this forum is shockingly low. Those memes are all literally the worst.
For what it's worth I voted for Gary Johnson in the last election... But I'm not really an an-cap, I fall more on the Bleeding Heart Libertarian/Liberaltarian side of the party. I would, for example, be much more likely to vote Democratic than Republican as I care more about social issues and align more with the Chicago school than the Austrian School. (And even then I'm fairly willing to compromise compared to your typical Paulbot/Objectivist/Ancap.)
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-hn
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: March 20 2016 at 23:47 |
history nerd wrote:
Those memes are all literally the worst. |
WHY DON'T YOU LIKE MY MEMES?   WHY
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history nerd
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 17 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: March 21 2016 at 00:09 |
A Person wrote:
history nerd wrote:
Those memes are all literally the worst. |
WHY DON'T YOU LIKE MY MEMES? |
I find them neither humorous nor informative. I'm well aware of the arguments they present, and even agree with a good few of them, but they fail to explain anything in a meaningful way and the humor is... Actully a post typed in all caps does not warrant this type of response....
UR MEMES R NOT DANK ENOUGH
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-hn
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Disparate Times
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 12 2015
Location: Rust belt
Status: Offline
Points: 261
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 08:47 |
I think patent and copyright laws are good things.
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Songs are like tightly budgeted meals Nobodies doing anything new or even real
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 09:22 |
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Anyone who changed their economic views based on Trump's presidential run probably didn't have any views in the real sense of the word.
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Very true.
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Anyone who changed any of his/her views based on Trump's presidential run probably didn't have any views in the real sense of the word
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 10:59 |
JJLehto wrote:
Well, I was always a social democrat of the generally Scandinavian model as many from the Libertarian Thread can attest Then I had a few year flirtation as a moderate libertarian (very moderate and I was never a Republican) but I abandoned that stuff around 2013 when I realized, long story short: most of it was wrong and detrimental. I learned more about economics and found out how much of it doesn't really sync up with reality. I then swung back to social democrat, though you're right economically I am more progressive/labor oriented than I ever was.
Used to believe in market oriented growth, general welfare, stimulii packages, stuff like a rising tide lifts all boats, worrying how we cut the pie pieces shrinks the pie, all that good textbook stuff. Now I prefer long term jobs programs, labor driven growth, government investment in certain areas etc etc
But yeah, my shift predates Trump and Sanders.
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I was just joking re Trump. Sorry, hard to resist.
Ah, I remember you once mentioned in the Lib thread that you'd consider voting for the Republicans as a better option than Democrats so I guess I mistakenly inferred that you were Republican at the time.
Funny that everybody except policy makers thinks we need to focus on jobs! Wonder what is it that they know that we don't or are they just stuck head firmly in the sand with the old economic apparatuses of fiscal expansion/monetary easing.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 12:00 |
Vompatti wrote:
I eat out Ayn Rand for breakfast.
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I just threw up in my mouth a little. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 18:48 |
rogerthat wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Well, I was always a social democrat of the generally Scandinavian model as many from the Libertarian Thread can attest Then I had a few year flirtation as a moderate libertarian (very moderate and I was never a Republican) but I abandoned that stuff around 2013 when I realized, long story short: most of it was wrong and detrimental. I learned more about economics and found out how much of it doesn't really sync up with reality. I then swung back to social democrat, though you're right economically I am more progressive/labor oriented than I ever was.
Used to believe in market oriented growth, general welfare, stimulii packages, stuff like a rising tide lifts all boats, worrying how we cut the pie pieces shrinks the pie, all that good textbook stuff. Now I prefer long term jobs programs, labor driven growth, government investment in certain areas etc etc
But yeah, my shift predates Trump and Sanders.
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I was just joking re Trump. Sorry, hard to resist.
Ah, I remember you once mentioned in the Lib thread that you'd consider voting for the Republicans as a better option than Democrats so I guess I mistakenly inferred that you were Republican at the time.
Funny that everybody except policy makers thinks we need to focus on jobs! Wonder what is it that they know that we don't or are they just stuck head firmly in the sand with the old economic apparatuses of fiscal expansion/monetary easing. |
Ah well that is always encouraged!
Hmmmm perhaps, I dont know, much was said over the 700 pages and 3 threads  during my libertarian-ish phase I voted third party, and I always thought the Repubs were the worst but who knows. I did flirt with the idea of Ron Paul for a while but I was never hardcore enough to go that far, and a bit too socially conservative for me, though he actually has left the Repub party recently.
Yeah, the mainstream is, naturally, slow to adapt and I've found out econ is pretty dogmatic. Will try any unorthodox money policy, creating trillions, but the idea to spend $1 trillion over 10 years on jobs: madness!! 
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 19:05 |
Ironically, rogerthat, one thing that shifted my thinking was the realization labor utilization is far more sorely lacking than I ever knew. Many on the right, and left I later found out, would cite the "real unemployment" rate to show how poor things have been under Obama. I, being fair, decided to look at the data going farther back and saw the "real" rate was appallingly high under GW Bush, and still pretty high even under Clinton. So it hit me, there is a very real problem and it has little to do with Obama. Especially given the fact we've gone increasingly lesser gov/more pro market ideology. Even Obama's stimulus was more like putting a bandaid on a chainsaw wound. I started to feel we may need more active policy
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 19:19 |
JJLehto wrote:
Ironically, rogerthat, one thing that shifted my thinking was the realization labor utilization is far more sorely lacking than I ever knew. Many on the right, and left I later found out, would cite the "real unemployment" rate to show how poor things have been under Obama. I, being fair, decided to look at the data going farther back and saw the "real" rate was appallingly high under GW Bush, and still pretty high even under Clinton. So it hit me, there is a very real problem and it has little to do with Obama. Especially given the fact we've gone increasingly lesser gov/more pro market ideology. Even Obama's stimulus was more like putting a bandaid on a chainsaw wound. I started to feel we may need more active policy
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That's the rub. To create more jobs, either govt can cut taxes even more to make it more attractive for investment or get involved in business itself. There are limits to the former given the independence of states in your country and the latter is anathema in the US.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 22 2016 at 19:36 |
A Person wrote:
Trump's existence makes me dislike capitalists even more, does that count?
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Trump isn't more capitalist than any other candidate is.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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